Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby buckeye » 2019-5-31 @ 14:16

Wanting to build a late DOS rig that can handle the 3D titles like TR1, Descent 2 and etc. but can't seem to find a voodoo 1 board
at a sane price so is there a viable option here? Banshee or Rush perhaps?
Foxconn Q45M E8400 Core2 Duo 3GB DDR2 800 BFG Geforce 7950GT 512MB X-Fi Xtreme Music 500W XP SP3
Asus P3B-F P3 850 512MB 40GB Diamond Viper V770 Ultra 32MB Aureal Vortex 2 400W 98SE
User avatar
buckeye
Oldbie
 
Posts: 641
Joined: 2015-11-04 @ 17:54
Location: Piney Grove, AL

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby BinaryDemon » 2019-5-31 @ 14:33

Rendition Verite? Probably even tougher to find.

I think both Descent2 and TR1 have S3 Virge patches... which would be super easy to find and cheap but of course your getting what you pay for... nearly zero 3d acceleration. :)
Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!
BinaryDemon
Member
 
Posts: 377
Joined: 2018-1-17 @ 00:35

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby buckeye » 2019-5-31 @ 15:00

BinaryDemon wrote:Rendition Verite? Probably even tougher to find.

I think both Descent2 and TR1 have S3 Virge patches... which would be super easy to find and cheap but of course your getting what you pay for... nearly zero 3d acceleration. :)


Will look into the Rendition. Already have a S3 Virge and a Matrox G100 neither of which offer 3D though. I do have a "weirdo" card called Starfighter 3D which I
know nothing about.
Foxconn Q45M E8400 Core2 Duo 3GB DDR2 800 BFG Geforce 7950GT 512MB X-Fi Xtreme Music 500W XP SP3
Asus P3B-F P3 850 512MB 40GB Diamond Viper V770 Ultra 32MB Aureal Vortex 2 400W 98SE
User avatar
buckeye
Oldbie
 
Posts: 641
Joined: 2015-11-04 @ 17:54
Location: Piney Grove, AL

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby zyga64 » 2019-5-31 @ 16:47

You can also try Ati Rage Pro. It's the only cards that accelerates TR1 in Windows. https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/ It is definitely better than Virge in terms of Direct 3D (apart of its proprietary Ati 3D CIF).
1) SCAMP /286@20 /4MB /TVGA9000C /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /8MB /Trio64V+ /YMF718
3) i430HX /P233MMX /64MB /VirgeDX+3Dfx /Vibra16s
4) i440BX /P!!! 450 /256MB /TNT /AWE64
5) i865G /E3200 /1GB /Ti4200 /YMF724
zyga64
Member
 
Posts: 160
Joined: 2014-3-12 @ 14:38
Location: Poland

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby psychz » 2019-5-31 @ 17:30

buckeye wrote:I do have a "weirdo" card called Starfighter 3D which I
know nothing about.


Intel i740! Had one too!
Stojke wrote:Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

:: chemical reaction :: athens in love || reality is absent || spectrality || meteoron || the lie you believe
User avatar
psychz
Member
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 2015-11-10 @ 11:03
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby Davros » 2019-5-31 @ 18:38

the mystique ran TR1 ok there are 2 patches 1 for the 2mb card and one for the 4mb card
Guardian of the Sacred Five Terabyte's of Gaming Goodness
User avatar
Davros
l33t
 
Posts: 2632
Joined: 2004-3-01 @ 03:08

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby leileilol » 2019-5-31 @ 21:15

I am legally required to mention Tomb Raider has a NEC PowerVR PCX1/2 version that can reach 1024x768, and you can slip in a PowerVR PCX2 card in your computer no problem (as long as it's not nvidia geforce for host video)
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
User avatar
leileilol
l33t++
 
Posts: 9801
Joined: 2006-12-16 @ 18:03

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby infiniteclouds » 2019-5-31 @ 22:21

The ATICIF version (actual Windows version) of Tomb Raider 1 may be the best looking one. I've not played it on PowerVR but from what I've read the 1024x768 setting runs like a slug. By contrast, my ATI Rage Pro Turbo (last/fastest CIF capable card) can do 800x600 at mostly 30 FPS and is, to me, superior looking to the 3dfx version which can have graphical anomalies even on a Voodoo 1 and appropriate speed CPU. They're also way cheaper and much less rare than PowerVR compatibles.

Gets my vote for the best TR1 GPU.
infiniteclouds
Oldbie
 
Posts: 537
Joined: 2013-6-08 @ 19:43

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby kolderman » 2019-5-31 @ 22:44

buckeye wrote:Wanting to build a late DOS rig that can handle the 3D titles like TR1, Descent 2 and etc. but can't seem to find a voodoo 1 board
at a sane price so is there a viable option here? Banshee or Rush perhaps?


I find Banshee generally more expensive the Voodoo1, and you probably don't want a Rush anyway.
kolderman
Member
 
Posts: 269
Joined: 2019-5-12 @ 04:22

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby Iris030380 » 2019-6-01 @ 11:36

Davros wrote:the mystique ran TR1 ok there are 2 patches 1 for the 2mb card and one for the 4mb card


Yup the Matrox Mystique did a good job with TR1. Basically allowed you run the game in SVGA with almost no slowdown (40fps+), although the card lacked the bi-linear filtering of the 3Dfx cards.

Not sure if the TR1 Mystique patch ran at 512x384 or full 640x480, but either way it looked and played great, as did Mechwarrior 2 and Moto Racer.

Mystique cards can be had fairly reasonably when they come up.
I5-2500K @ 4.0Ghz + R9 290 + 8GB DDR3 1333 :: I3-540 @ 4.2 GHZ + 6870 4GB DDR3 2000 :: E6300 @ 2.7 GHZ + 1950XTX 2GB DDR2 800 :: A64 3700 + 1950PRO AGP 2GB DDR400 :: K63+ @ 550MHZ + V2 SLI 256 PC133:: P200 + MYSTIQUE / 3Dfx 128 PC66
User avatar
Iris030380
Member
 
Posts: 375
Joined: 2010-11-30 @ 20:10
Location: Realm of Steel Rats

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby rasz_pl » 2019-6-01 @ 12:18

rasz_pl
Member
 
Posts: 412
Joined: 2017-6-04 @ 00:57

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby buckeye » 2019-6-03 @ 17:49

leileilol wrote:I am legally required to mention Tomb Raider has a NEC PowerVR PCX1/2 version that can reach 1024x768, and you can slip in a PowerVR PCX2 card in your computer no problem (as long as it's not nvidia geforce for host video)


I've found (2) versions: apocalypse 3dx and matrox m3d, are there anymore?
Foxconn Q45M E8400 Core2 Duo 3GB DDR2 800 BFG Geforce 7950GT 512MB X-Fi Xtreme Music 500W XP SP3
Asus P3B-F P3 850 512MB 40GB Diamond Viper V770 Ultra 32MB Aureal Vortex 2 400W 98SE
User avatar
buckeye
Oldbie
 
Posts: 641
Joined: 2015-11-04 @ 17:54
Location: Piney Grove, AL

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby blurks » 2019-6-03 @ 20:31

No these are the only PCX2 cards.
User avatar
blurks
Oldbie
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 2017-1-14 @ 21:49

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby mothergoose729 » 2019-6-03 @ 20:38

leileilol wrote:I am legally required to mention Tomb Raider has a NEC PowerVR PCX1/2 version that can reach 1024x768, and you can slip in a PowerVR PCX2 card in your computer no problem (as long as it's not nvidia geforce for host video)


Well done! Consider your contractual obligation met for this quarter. The agreed upon funds have been deposited into your account.
mothergoose729
Oldbie
 
Posts: 511
Joined: 2018-4-10 @ 03:04

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby leileilol » 2019-6-03 @ 22:34

blurks wrote:No these are the only PCX2 cards.



There's also NEC PC3DEngine2 and Apocalypse 5D (PCX2 with a Tseng ET6100 / ESS Agogo)
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
User avatar
leileilol
l33t++
 
Posts: 9801
Joined: 2006-12-16 @ 18:03

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby kjliew » 2019-6-04 @ 00:23

Both machines in your signature would have enough performance to play TR1 and Descent 2 through Glide wrappers, and at at high resolution scaling supported by the Glide wrappers, too. Well, unless your focus is to get the fun of building the machine rather than playing the games, then just ignore my comment :)

The YouTube video of ATI 3D version of TR1 shows wobbled texture. Not sure if this is ATI hardware problem or indeed the perspective correction in ATI 3D hardware implementation is flawed, which reminds me of an ad in the 90's that Matrox showed comparing Mystique and ATI Rage3D perspective correction, and claimed that ATI cheated in the implementation. Today, ATI version can also be played with ATICIF-to-OpenGL wrapper. The game would play nicely on one of your machine with NVIDIA GPU.

PowerVR PCX2 hardware is hard to acquire nowadays, and if you ever find one, then it would usually be at inflated price.
kjliew
Member
 
Posts: 479
Joined: 2004-1-08 @ 03:03

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby buckeye » 2019-6-04 @ 15:08

kjliew wrote:Both machines in your signature would have enough performance to play TR1 and Descent 2 through Glide wrappers, and at at high resolution scaling supported by the Glide wrappers, too. Well, unless your focus is to get the fun of building the machine rather than playing the games, then just ignore my comment :)

The YouTube video of ATI 3D version of TR1 shows wobbled texture. Not sure if this is ATI hardware problem or indeed the perspective correction in ATI 3D hardware implementation is flawed, which reminds me of an ad in the 90's that Matrox showed comparing Mystique and ATI Rage3D perspective correction, and claimed that ATI cheated in the implementation. Today, ATI version can also be played with ATICIF-to-OpenGL wrapper. The game would play nicely on one of your machine with NVIDIA GPU.

PowerVR PCX2 hardware is hard to acquire nowadays, and if you ever find one, then it would usually be at inflated price.


I have run TR1 on both machines, this is just my wanting to build something with a P2 300-350mhz as a "base" and go from there. The ATI cards are the only options I see for a reasonable price so I'll check out some videos before jumping on them.

PowerVR cards are for the "rich/famous"!
Foxconn Q45M E8400 Core2 Duo 3GB DDR2 800 BFG Geforce 7950GT 512MB X-Fi Xtreme Music 500W XP SP3
Asus P3B-F P3 850 512MB 40GB Diamond Viper V770 Ultra 32MB Aureal Vortex 2 400W 98SE
User avatar
buckeye
Oldbie
 
Posts: 641
Joined: 2015-11-04 @ 17:54
Location: Piney Grove, AL

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby rasz_pl » 2019-6-05 @ 01:07

buckeye wrote:PowerVR cards are for the "rich/famous"!



back in the day (1997) PCX2 was the bargain option, Matrox M3D was $99 in December 97, price of noname Virge card, half the price of Voodoo/Riva128 (and half the speed?).
rasz_pl
Member
 
Posts: 412
Joined: 2017-6-04 @ 00:57

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby dionb » 2019-6-05 @ 12:29

Maybe it's a regional thing, but here in EU/NL I keep bumping into Verite Rendition cards (particularly the Diamond S220 PCI with V2100), both in old systems bought sight-unseen and for sale for very reasonable prices (I never got more than EUR 15 for one when offloading them...), so for a budget alternative to a V1 I'd say they make a lot of sense. V1 is fairly common, but commands higher prices, and PCX seems very rare (in 18 months time only spotted one locally...). Of course S3 Virge is everywhere for (almost) nothing, but there's a reason for that ;)
User avatar
dionb
l33t
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: 2017-12-23 @ 15:35
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Alternative to 3dfx 3D card for TR1

Postby meljor » 2019-6-05 @ 20:54

dionb wrote:Maybe it's a regional thing, but here in EU/NL I keep bumping into Verite Rendition cards (particularly the Diamond S220 PCI with V2100), both in old systems bought sight-unseen and for sale for very reasonable prices (I never got more than EUR 15 for one when offloading them...), so for a budget alternative to a V1 I'd say they make a lot of sense. V1 is fairly common, but commands higher prices, and PCX seems very rare (in 18 months time only spotted one locally...). Of course S3 Virge is everywhere for (almost) nothing, but there's a reason for that ;)


So true... as the PCX is one of the very few cards missing in my collection. Don't think the Matrox M3D was popular here at the time..
asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1
meljor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1747
Joined: 2014-4-30 @ 19:43
Location: Netherlands


Return to Video

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests