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First post, by Enhancer

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Hi folks.

This is my first post. I recently got back into classic gaming, and tinkering with old components. I wanted to see if I could use my Acer Predator X34. I figured I would document some of my findings in case someone else got the weird bug to do something like this.

Since this monitor only has HDMI and Displayport inputs, I have found that can be quite a limitation for Windows XP. I first tried with a GTX 760, figuring it to be a good choice to play any XP game at high framerates and detail settings, while having the bonus of that Displayport. I immediately ran into some issues, finding that anything above 3440x1440@60hz was out of the question. Even 60hz was sometimes dodgy it seemed. Knowing that Displayport 1.2 should be plenty for 3440x1440, I looked about and guessed that the Kepler cards had pixel clock limitations. I tried to scale it back, but the drivers were very picky about any resolutions in-between, accepting say 1080p but refusing to have anything to do with 1600x1200. This was new, because my main machine(with a 1080ti) has no problem at all with in-between resolutions, you can pick whatever you want up to the max resolutions.

So I sold the GTX 760 and got a GTX 960, hoping the last card with dedicated XP support would be new enough to handle Displayport 1.2. Unfortunately, I encountered largely the same problems. At this point I started playing more with drivers. The latest drivers(368.81) are a hindrance, locking out custom resolutions, and still limiting to 60hz. Backing it down to the earlier 350 series drivers,(I think I was using 355.98) opened custom resolutions back up, but still wouldn't play friendly much with high framerates, and the in-between resolutions. Attempting to use HDMI instead opened up 1920x1080@100hz, but it still wouldn't play nice with in-betweens.

At this point I was a bit flummoxed, and there is scant info about anything related to Displayport for Windows XP(or HDMI 2.0 for that matter) . So instead, I hooked up another old PC build with a ATI HD 3870. The much older 3870 lacks the Displayports and HDMI outputs, but I sourced a DVI to HDMI cable, and lo and behold I had more options on hand, far more than the Nvidia setup would allow.

Ah ha! Now all I need is an ATI/AMD card running HDMI or Displayport and I'm off to the races. I picked up a HD 5870 for a good price, started with a fresh XP install, and immediately ran into problems with lockdowns and limitations. Familiar with the Nvidia problems by now, I quickly sourced the problem to the drivers. While Nvidia seems to be relatively consistent in its driver limitations, AMD is all over the place. I found that again the latest 14.4 Catalyst drivers weren't having it, so I started moving back. 13.4 Beta drivers allowed some more options, so I started looking a substantially older driver, something closer to launch drivers. I happened upon 10.4, because it was the quickest one I could source for download. Suddenly the world opened. I had 3440x1440@100hz! Almost. The images jumps a lot and lacks stability so I had lower the refresh rate, which leads me to believe there is an inherent bandwidth limitation for Displayport in Windows XP, possibly not allowing 1.2, only 1.1. However, I was able to get things like 1600x1200@85hz, which was still a big improvement. Feeling bolder, I tried Catalyst 10.5 and 10.6 and ran into my worst problems yet. Both drivers wouldn't allow anything more than 800x600, it was awful.

So, I figured I would share this and see what ideas you had to combat the situation, or if you had ever tried something similar(4K 60hz+?). At some point I will likely try and update this with a more specific list of supported resolutions and framerates, within the limitation of my X34 of course. Looking forward to your feedback.

Last edited by DosFreak on 2020-10-04, 20:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 14, by Enhancer

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Huzzah! Success.

I was finally able to achieve my goal by purchasing a beast of a GPU. The mighty...........HD 8570. Yep, an OEM R7 240 wannabe. It didn't start out well either, so once again I tried the 3 main driver versions for this card (Catalyst 13.12, 13.9. 14.4) and had similar issues to the 5870 with later drivers. But then something weird happened, and I was able to get it to project the full screen by tricking it with the regular Windows XP advanced display properties. So I knuckled down with 14.4, and got closer again where it would let me try and display 100hz, but I kept running into the typical "Displayport Lower Setting Applied" error when aplying it. Since this card is Displayport 1.2, and shouldn't have limits, I tried one final hope, switching DP cables. Finally, it all clicked. Looks like the X34 is picky about its Displayport cables. I went back to the 5870 to see if the other cable would help, but it still was stymied, so it won't go above 1600x1200@85hz with 10.6.

I may get bold enough to track down a HD 7970 some day, because I suspect any of the 1.2 cards could manage this, but for now I'm happy I can even play, and the little HD 8570 can handle most retro titles pretty easily. I'll update this if I ever try the HD 6000 or HD 7000 lineup.

Reply 2 of 14, by DosFreak

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Investigated Windows XP with my 980ti and the scaling issue this weekend.

Do not use the HDMI port on your graphics card unless you want to be limited to 1080p at 60hz with no scaling.
Use DVI or Displayport if you want more than 1080p at equal to or higher than 60hz with scaling
Windows XP and or the Nvidia drivers seem to only support Displayport 1.1? (need to verify)
According to this only Displayport 1.1 is supported?
https://msfn.org/board/topic/178083-list-of-u … for-windows-xp/
Highest refresh rate I could use was 85hz, this was tried with different displayport cables as well.
If you run at a higher refresh rate either the screen will go black or will be corrupted so lower it.
3840x1600 was limited to 30hz in Windows XP on a 980ti. 75-120hz in Windows 10 on the same computer.
I could reach 2560x1440 @ 85hz via displayport. DVI->HDMI was 1920x1080. 2560x1440 was available but not workable via HDMI so make sure you only use DVI on a max 1080p or 1200p monitor.
The last drivers to support scaling are the 355.98 (VERIFIED) drivers. Add your videocard to nv4_dispi.inf if not already there.
If you want scaling do not use the "SD/HD" resolutions, use the "PC" resolutions.
Do not bother with overrideEDID or monitor drivers.
If a game doesn't use the currently set refresh rate but tries to automatically use the max refresh rate then for those games just switch to a "SD/HD" resolution which maxes at 60hz otherwise when the game loads you'll get a black or corrupted screen.
Boot into VGA mode when something goes wrong.

The above took around 12hrs altogether.....

Untested
I did not try any active adapters or converters. I only tried passive dvi -> HDMI
I did not try dual link dvi
https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-NVI … l-Clock-Patcher
Need to look for an XP equivalent since the above seems to be a driver issue may be worth installing Vista or 7 and stepping through the later drivers to confirm.

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Reply 3 of 14, by DosFreak

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Windows XP + High refresh rate LCD issues

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Reply 4 of 14, by DosFreak

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Received an active adapter and a new HDMI cable. No change from the above except that 2560x1440 from Displayport -> HDMI @60hz works now wherease before 2560x1440 would just blackscreen. Unfortunately scaling not working this way so displayport only it is at 2560x1440 @ 85hz.

Had to use a refresh rate locking tool otherwise games would switch to 60hz (known XP issue).

Last thing to try is Vista 32bit and install the later XP drivers and see if scaling still broken, also interested to see if refresh rates go higher like they do in Windows 10.

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Reply 5 of 14, by DosFreak

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If I get around to tackling the EDID again for trying to use newer graphics drivers than 355.98 (or HDMI ports) the below is interesting, I found the below while trying to figure out why in NTVDM in XP with my 980ti and my 2560x1440 (displayport) why all resolutions in NTVDM are scaled to 2560x1440 which is the native res of the monitor. Disabling the scaling options has no effect nor does NVSC http://rayer.g6.cz/programm/programe.htm#NVSC. Need to see what happens in real DOS but will likely be the same since in fullscreen you are talking directly to the card but mabye NVSC will work in DOS with this monitor and card. The scaling is fine just weird that you can't do anything with it.

I had to use the videoprt proxy otherwise no video and of course NOLFB for games that default to using LFB.

NVIDIA cards - Centered resolutions lower than native
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl … pic3536214.html

Topic author Helpful post? ( 0 ) # 4 08 Jan 2019 22:16 However, I am not entirely satisfied with this. I would prefer any lower […]
Show full quote

Topic author Helpful post? ( 0 )
# 4 08 Jan 2019 22:16
However, I am not entirely satisfied with this. I would prefer any lower resolutions to be scaled in the center of the screen but using the full height. For this to work on the POST screen and in DOS, you probably need to edit the bios of the graphics card and / or EDID in the display differently. However, when it comes to Windows, it turned out that the Scaling with a constant ratio of edges option works poorly, for example, the resolution of 800x600 on the 77.72 driver looks like - the image is displayed on the left and cut off on the right: On newer drivers, e.g. 84.21 to make scaling options available you need to turn off the TREAT AS HDTV option, but after you turn on Scaling with a fixed edge ratio
NVIDIA cards - Centered resolutions lower than native

the display switches from monitor mode to Interlaced HDTV mode where the font is fuzzy and the colors are fuzzy and cannot be used as a monitor. As I wrote in the previous post - on even newer drivers, e.g. 185.85, scaling options are not available and on the latest 307.83 there is no such option.

I tested a dozen NVIDIA drivers and none helped and when I connected the display to another computer with an Intel integrated card, the same scaling function works without a problem.

It turns out that this is a known problem with NVIDIA drivers and LG displays (probably only those with a built-in DVB-T MPEG4 tuner) when we have a graphics card connected via DVI to the display to the HDMI port.

Standard EDID has 128 bytes, while if EDID has 256 bytes - as in my case, additional 128 bytes is the Extension CEA.

NVIDIA drivers work so that if they detect this extension, the scaling option does not work properly with the aspect ratio because they detect the display as a TV and not monitor and misinterpret the data from the CEA extension. In LG displays after pressing OK it is like this:

when the display works as a monitor it shows e.g. 1920x1080 @ 60Hz
when the display works as HDTV it shows e.g. 16: 9 1080i 60Hz. To solve the problem, it is enough to disable the use of the CEA extension in Windows via the registry. You can probably edit EDID in the displays as well, deleting the second 128 bytes, some even allow this via HDMI cable, but it's safer to use the Windows registry. Tested on:
WinXP Pro x86 SP2
NVIDIA 77.72
PCIe GeForce 6200 TurboCache (TM) graphics card
display - native resolution FullHD 1920x1080, LG 22MT44DP
DVI connection-HDMINajlepiej extract the driver 77.72_win2kxp_international_whql.exe and cancel the installation of the box, edit the file nv4_disp.inf , which will introduce this setting during the installation of the driver. We're going to need 4 bytes from our monitor's EDID at offset 8-11. This can be read in various ways, e.g. with the Monitor Asset Manager program , which should automatically read the EDID content of the active display after starting - see Display IDs , [Real-time ...] and Raw Data below :
NVIDIA cards - Centered resolutions lower than native
we open the .inf file in Windows Notepad
in the [nv_SoftwareDeviceSettings] section, add the following entry:
Code:

HKR ,, OverrideEdidFlags0,% REG_BINARY%, xx, xx, xx, xx, 00.00, FF, FF, 04.00.00.00.7E, 01.00

where xx, xx, xx, xx are our 4 bytes, for me this is:
Code:

HKR ,, OverrideEdidFlags0,% REG_BINARY%, 1E, 6D, C6.59.00.00, FF, FF, 04.00.00.00.7E, 01.00

we save the changes and install the driver
after installation and restart of the system, the scaling function Scaling with a fixed edge ratio should work properly:
NVIDIA cards - Centered resolutions lower than native

The registry entry causes the graphics driver to read only the first 128 bytes of EDID from the registry instead of from the monitor.
I found helpful information here, where in both cases the problem was related to Windows Vista, NVIDIA card and LG display:
image at resolution 1900x1200 is cropped and off-center DVI to HDMI LCD distortion problem using EDID tweak As you can see, the trick works on WinXP as well.

Topic author Helpful post? ( 0 )
# 5 21 Jan 2019 21:08
A small upgrade. I have not checked it personally, but apparently if the graphics card has a sound on the HDMI or DisplayPort output and the display has built-in speakers, then after using this trick with the register, there may be no sound in the display speakers. Probably because the settings for the sound capabilities of the display are in the EDID CEA-Extension, the use of which this trick disables. Below is the HDMI EDID of the monitor with the Audio settings in the CEA-Extension: Therefore, instead of disabling the CEA extension, it is better to edit it and if it is possible to upload EDID to the display or in Windows from Vista up, overwrite the entire EDID by Microsoft - How to Use an INF to Override the Monitor EDID
NVIDIA cards - Centered resolutions lower than native

(for the sake of simplicity I will add that such a monitor .inf driver can create the Monitor Asset Manager program from the matched EDID of the display)

Unfortunately, I do not know which option in CEA-Extension should be corrected for the scaling to work properly.

PS If the display allows EDID editing via VGA or HDMI cable, it can be easily changed after editing using Linux and i2c-tools and the script write-edid.sh . Tested on Debian 9 amd64 with display connected to PC via VGA-VGA cable - only changed display name. After this treatment, Win7 recognizes the display with the changed name:
NVIDIA cards - Centered resolutions lower than native

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Reply 6 of 14, by RayeR

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As NVSC just calls VESA BIOS function it probably won't work in WinNT-based. Just try under DOS.

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Reply 7 of 14, by ruthan

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Hmm, come here with similar issue:
WinXP Nvidia, 1440p over HDMI is not working, it seems as driver problem, with Windows 7 its working fine (G750 TI)

Could you point me to proven Display port to HDMI adapter which is able to do at least 2560x1440@60? I woud need to buy other Geforce 750 ti with displayport, because my has on 2x DVI and HDMI mini.. and try to mod it into passive one.. or get Geforce 950, 960 with active cooling and diplay port.

What about DVI to Displayport adapters for 2560x1440 does them exists (quickly googled and found only other direction DP to DVI)?

Other headache would be some Displayport switch, because switches are usually for HDMI, they exist, but when you want bigger refresh rate (for modern OS) and Gsynch support they are expensive as hell.. Cable re-connection depend on booted OS would be pita..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 8 of 14, by ruthan

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I searched my knowledge base, this should fix scaling with newer nvidia drivers..

%windir%\system32\rundll32.exe NvCpl.dll,dtcfg setscaling 1 DA 5

then run it, the screen will flash once.
Then reboot.

This is the equivalent for enabling "nvidia display adapter scaling with correct aspect ratio". Works wonders here, using hdmi to Sony hdtv, give it a try! This ONLY works if you're outputting to Digital Flat Panel or HDTV device, don't use this code for other screen types.

If my memory serves last time it worked for me..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 9 of 14, by DosFreak

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For DP to HDMI on XP at 2560x1440 @60hz without scaling
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082C7BHK8/ … 0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

By scaling not working if you go to the "Adjust desktop size and position" screen then when scaling is not available then "Aspect Ratio, Full-Screen, and No-Scaling" will not be available with the 355.98 Nvidia drivers.

If using straight DP then 2560x1440 @85hz works on XP.

There are no DP to DVI adapters.

A DP KVM will not help unless you do straight DP -> DP and assuming no issues with that...., For XP I don't run the video to my DP switch but straight to the monitor.

The rundll32 command will not work with the newer Nvidia drivers or if it does it doesn't work for this issue.

According to the OP you may have better results with AMD cards

Everything above this post was tested on monitors, I have no idea what kind of luck you'd have with a TV.

Last edited by DosFreak on 2020-12-30, 19:47. Edited 5 times in total.

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Reply 10 of 14, by DosFreak

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For a DP switch I found this useful:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089SLDDZZ/ … e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My DP KVM doesn't allow the full dynamic range at 144hz so I use this DP switch when I want 144hz with the full range when gaming on Windows 10.

For a DP KVM I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KYRV6VJ/ … e?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Again you won't get the full range at 144hz with this switch.

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Reply 11 of 14, by ruthan

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There are no DP to DVI adapters.

You probably meant DVI to DP.. because i have couple cheap working (for 1920x1200) DP (from graphics) to DVI (monitor), because there is important what is source and target, because they are not usually working vice versa.

Im quite new in anything bigger than 1920x1200, i never was fried of high DPI, but 1920x1200 is dead.. and with lesser resolution was a bit forced to 2560x1440, i hope that i will life with it for lots of years as with three 1920x1200 mons.
I have only monitors, but its just other feature of Nvidia drivers and anything connected through HDMI is considered as TV.

A DP KVM will not help unless you do straight DP -> DP and assuming no issues with that...., For XP I don't run the video to my DP switch but straight to the monitor.

There are some monsters like this, but is has price of 1 expensive monitor and its even only 2 mons (per machine) if it would have 3 i would maybe consider it.
https://kvm-switch.de/de/de/2-port-displaypor … -2216-html.html - 2560 @144 and Gsynch

According to the OP you may have better results with AMD cards

Yeah but also worse game compatibility and in this era they were usually noisier for same performance.

For DP to HDMI on XP at 2560x1440 @60hz without scaling
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082C7BHK8/ … 0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Are sure that active adapter is needed ? It is not expensive , but maybe is not needed, im using same cheap passive DP to HDMI adapters for other machines (again up to 1920x1200) and its working.. Its not exact but DP as standard was always something designed as robust and so DVI and HDMI feature set is included and converts are working, but logically it cant work vice versa for monitor inputs - i never was able converted DVI or HDMi to DP.. and i never had active adapter.

Otherwise thanks for tips..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 12 of 14, by DosFreak

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Yeah sorry. No passive DP to DVI for those high resolutions and refresh rates.

There are alot of combinations to keep in mind DP versions, HDMI versions, passive, active, drivers, OS, video cards, monitors, cable quality etc so try it keep it simple if you can. I use DP to DP @ 2560x1440 @ 85hz in XP and use the refresh rate lock tool for games that try to use higher than the max refresh rate otherwise I'll get a black screen (or I can switch to a SD/HD res which has a hard limit of 60hz). If I couldn't use DP then I'd have to settle for 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 @60hz with DVI. If you don't care about scaling then HDMI or DVI->HDMI can work and possibly you can try an old Nvidia driver version for working scaling with HDMI if your video card is supported on that old driver version, for the above I tested with a 980ti.

I'm with you on the AMD compatibility, it's why I still use an Nvidia card to this day. 😀

You asked about DP to HDMI at 2560x1440 and I responded with the one I used since if I used a DP to HDMI passive I could only do 1920x1080 but active I could do 2560x1440 @ 60hz.
If you do go this route and and you want scaling and it's not working then try older driver versions and see if it works. 355.98 is the latest with working scaling for DVI and DP w/980ti.

For the above I haven't done any testing since, I'm pretty sure it's a driver/OS issue since it all works fine in a newer OS on the same box. Never did get around to testing XDDM vs WDDM Nvidia drivers on Vista to test that theory. You can use XDDM drivers up to Windows 7 if you have time to test. I also never contacted that guy who made the Nvidia pixel clock patcher to patch Nvidia drivers to see how hard it would be to have an XP version. I think I also was going to look into seeing how high the basic vga or bearwindows drivers could go for testing but didn't bother with those since I wanted 3D but testing there could prove that it's a driver issue.

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Reply 13 of 14, by DosFreak

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http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/368.81/ … tes-updated.pdf

Unsupported Features Under Windows XP
DisplayPort 1.2 functionality is not supported, including increased bandwidth (HBR2
mode) and multi-display streaming.

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Reply 14 of 14, by ruthan

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BTW there is limitation that Kepler has 2 monitors only can, some confirm that with Maxwell (Geforce 9xx) are 3 monitors supported on XP?

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.