VOGONS


Reply 28 of 46, by RayeR

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Dusko wrote on 2021-01-22, 04:20:

I have a Millenium I 4Mb and a Millenium II 8Mb with a 4Mb expansion board. Didn't know they made a 8Mb expansion board too.

Hi, please could you look closer at the memory module towards some strong light to see if the PCB is 2-layer or multiple layers? If you can see a bit throug traces from other side then it would be only 2-layer and would be easier to RE.

BTW I also saw Mill II 4MB for AGP - chip version 2164WA-B, I was a bit surprised to see it but there are of course better cards for AGP systems...

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Reply 29 of 46, by Dusko

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RayeR wrote on 2021-01-22, 05:44:

Hi, please could you look closer at the memory module towards some strong light to see if the PCB is 2-layer or multiple layers? If you can see a bit throug traces from other side then it would be only 2-layer and would be easier to RE.

BTW I also saw Mill II 4MB for AGP - chip version 2164WA-B, I was a bit surprised to see it but there are of course better cards for AGP systems...

Wow! I didn't know there was an AGP version.

It looks like a 2 layer to me, but check this out! you can get them for $20 each, this guy still have a bunch of expansion boards for sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Matrox-4MB-50NS-W … 872.m2749.l2649
I bought mine from him, brand new (or that's what it seems) in a sealed bag! and it was nicely packaged in a box.

Dusko.

Reply 30 of 46, by RayeR

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Yes, I saw there are some offers on ebay but the sellers are always from USA, that means for me the price of item is multiplied x-times by insane shipping cost, taxes, etc... I think it would be nice to be able manufacture new exp. boards. The PCB itself can be made in china for few $. The memory chips still can be bought or I can buy a cheaper donor card to solder them out. The problem is there's no any tech. info or circuit diagram. If you have a time please try to make the best photos of the top and down side of the exp. module on good light condition, it may help. I'm still trying to find someone who has the module and can borrow it but here it's very rare...

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Reply 31 of 46, by RayeR

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Hi, I started with reverse-engineering of memory chips wiring on Millennium II. I identified almost 92% of all pins and have some idea how it works. But I need to track the rest of pins to be able to make replica of memory module. I need someone who has the module and multimeter, with some electrical skills and be kind to help.

Here's my partial result:
http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/MGA1.png
http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/MGA2.png
My numbering of connectors:
http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/MGA3.jpg

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Reply 33 of 46, by RayeR

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Hi, I had a closer look at your photos and also I got some photos of 12MB module from Russia but I'm unable to track unknown pins as the PCB traces are hidden below pin header or inner layers. So this method will not work, it needs to be probed with multimeter...

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Reply 34 of 46, by Dusko

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Yes, I was thinking the same thing, not sure if these pics will help. I guess it would be easier if you mark in the pictures what pins you haven't identified yet. Let me know.

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Dusko.

Reply 35 of 46, by Dusko

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A few more pics...

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Dusko.

Reply 36 of 46, by Swiego

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Hi! I have a couple of the 12MB modules now and a multimeter and am happy to contribute. May need some startup training 😀. Will message you in a couple of days once I’m settled and ready.

Reply 37 of 46, by RayeR

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Hi, I need to identify this pins, see picture below.
It's very helpful to have a multimeter with beep tester that reacts immediately on probes connection. It's paradox that some cheap multimeters do this better than expensive ones that have overvoltage protection so it takes a few 1/10s until they beep, then seeking is much slower.
So just hold one probe on unknown pin (better on components side) and with second one move slightly touching all pins around the package of memory chips A1 to A4. Once it beeps stop and localize exact pin which beeps and count its position from nearest numbered edge pin. Pin numbering on a package below. Write down the pin number, memory chip number and connector pin number, so e.g. J2.D10=A1.78. On 4MB module some of unknown pins would be probably unconnected, on 12MB module probably all are used. Thanks.

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Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-01-31, 23:29. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 39 of 46, by Dusko

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Ok, here it is, not sure if you are still missing something, let me know...

J4-A30 n/c
J4-A29 n/c
J4-A28 n/c
J4-A27 n/c
J4-A26 n/c
J4-A25 n/c
J4-A23 A1,2 -99(OE)
J4-B30 n/c
J4-B28 A1,2 -18(CAS)
J4-B27 n/c
J4-B26 n/c
J4-B24 n/c
J4-C29 A1,2,3,4 -80(SE)
J4-C26 A3,4 -18(CAS)
J4-D28 n/c
J4-D24 A3,4 -99(OE)

J2-D10 n/c
J2-C27 n/c
J2-B13 n/c
J2-A03 n/c
J2-A17 n/c
J2-A19 n/c
J2-A23 n/c

Dusko.

Reply 40 of 46, by RayeR

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Thanks for effort, thankfully my vision is still sharp enough to see this pins w/o mag. lens 😀

Now we have important OE and CAS signals that are grouped by 2 chips for 64b data bus width, but I'm missing the RAS. I belive it should have 2 separate pins as CAS has. You probably missed it but try also J4-D30 and J4-D29 that are RAS of onboard chips.

I wonder a bit about J4 A23 that is connected with B30 on the card but not on module, maybe used on 12MB version.

Also I need to figure data bus mapping so please check at least J4-A12 (DQ0) and J4-C3(DQ0) which goes to what chips (pin 5 on mem.chip)
and similar for J4-D21,C21,A21,D20 (BE0-3) and J4-B23,C22,B22,A22 (BE0-3) which goes to what chips (pins 119, 98, 120, 97 on mem. chip)

Also not clear about SQ0-15 lines that each onboard chip have them separate but I guess it would be also separately connected to 4 mem chips. on module, so please check at least J2-C25(SQ0), J2-C19(SQ0), J2-D13(SQ0), J2-D4(SQ0) which goes to what chips (pin 32 on mem. chip). This pins seems to have 33ohm resistors in series so be sure your DMM beeps at this resistance yet.

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Reply 41 of 46, by RayeR

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One of my friends found a 4MB expansion module and was so kind to send it to me so I will be able to beep all necessary connection myself so I hope the schematic will be completed soon 😀
Anyway thanks for effort!

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Reply 42 of 46, by Dusko

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That's great news! I was going to look into it during the weekend. Share some pics once you have it all together! It's a cool project!. You should keep an eye on ebay, you may find one near you at some point.

Dusko.

Reply 43 of 46, by RayeR

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I sometimes checked ebay for years but didn't have a luck. In our country it was pretty expansive professional card that was not much common used so there was even much less memory modules. All cards I saw offered on local secondhand servers was without module.

Today I received the package with friend's Mill2. It's 8MB version with 4MB module as you have. I plug it in my BX133 raid and play with it for a while. At 1st I wondered that my VESATEST detected only 4MB LFB. So I updated video BIOS from 1.1 to latest 1.5 and then got reported 12MB LFB but still there was only few truecolor modes and 1600x1200 only in 16bpp. I tried also load UNIVBE 6.7 and it increased number of VESA modes from 24 to 33 while added the highest truecolor mode 1280x1024/32 - I'm still missing 1600x1200/32 (142h). I know that this higher truecolor modes was not fully standardized by VESA but I hoped at least UNIVBE would help, a bit disappointed. This mode should be available at least in Windows and DOS CAD programs that have native MGA drivers (like Vibrant for 3D Studio).

I also bought that AGP Mill2 as a donor of memory chips. I tested it and it works fine. Due to AGP it has better LFB throughput - 180 MB/s but there are better cards to be plugged in AGP...

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Reply 44 of 46, by RayeR

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I have finished the schematic. RAS# signal is common for all 4 chips on the module and chips A7, A8 on board
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1.htm#MGAMEMRE

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Reply 45 of 46, by RayeR

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Routing in progress...

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    PCB layout
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Reply 46 of 46, by RayeR

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Routing is done.
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1/mempcb1.png
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1/mempcb2.png
I just have to finish some other small PCBs and I will send it to JLCPCB manufacturer...

UPDATE: PCBs are manufacturing.

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