VOGONS


First post, by DamienC

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I built an 8-bit ISA Trident TVGA9000 based SVGA card (http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/isa-supervga). I had originally had some issues with unreadable text and posted about it in the General Hardware forum, but after checking over my solder joints the card seemed to be working fine and I deleted that post.

So now, most of the time, the video card works near perfectly in my Micro 8088 based system. It even passed every video test in CheckIt Pro. However, it exhibits some strange behavior:

  • Occasionally, on system startup, the system appears to go into some sort of weird "monochrome mode" where text that should be color shows up in black/white/gray, and some normally gray text doesn't appear at all. I can still boot and get to a DOS prompt, but a lot of the text is "hidden," meaning I know something was outputted and saw the cursor move but there's nothing on the screen. When this happens, I can launch a game that uses low res VGA graphics (in this case I fired up Loom), and the game starts up just fine, except with grayscale graphics. Exiting the game brings me back to a visible DOS prompt with gray text, but programs still launch in monochrome mode. This also seems to happen more often when I hit the reset button on the case or with a soft reboot (ctrl-alt-del). It has happened on first boot from power on as well though. It's very inconsistent.
  • One game I tried running, an ancient CGA game just called Archery (I have it on an old Software Labs shareware floppy entitled "Arcade Sports Games") does not run at all, system halts on execution. The other two CGA games on the floppy (PC Bowl and PC Pool) work fine.

Anyone have any idea what might be wrong? I've gone over the board a couple times now and all the solder joints seem OK and I didn't miss any ICs.

I'll also try to provide some pictures or video later today to show exactly what this looks like.

Reply 1 of 12, by darry

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First point :
That occasionally happened to my Fujikama brand TVGA8900 back in the day . You can use the TVGA utils to switch it back to color mode, if memory serves .

Second point :
Try using TVGA utils to switch it to CGA mode before launching the game .

I hope this is the right set of utils .

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Reply 3 of 12, by Grzyb

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Yes, ISA Tridents (and some other cards) do intermittently mis-recognize DDC monitors as monochrome, it's a well-known issue, easily solved with SMONITOR.EXE
But we're talking here about a modern card - safe bet it's free of this issue, so the problem must be somewhere else...

Last edited by Grzyb on 2020-04-30, 16:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 4 of 12, by DamienC

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Grzyb wrote on 2020-04-16, 18:53:

Yes, ISA Tridents (and some other cards) do intermittently mis-recognize DDC monitors as monochrome, it's a well-known issue, easily solved with SMONITOR.EXE
But we're talking here about a modern card - safe bet it's free of this issue, so the problem must be somewhere else...

I'm inclined to agree. I'll try the utility tonight to see if it helps.

Initially, I had some bad solder joints on pins 2, 3, and 4 of the TVGA9000 chip (the blue, green, and red signals respectively) that caused some barely readable text. That problem is sorted out, but after looking over the card schematic and the VGA connector pinout, I'm starting to think maybe the monitor ID portion of the circuit has a problem. I'll check those components as well.

Reply 5 of 12, by darry

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Grzyb wrote on 2020-04-16, 18:53:

Yes, ISA Tridents (and some other cards) do intermittently mis-recognize DDC monitors as monochrome, it's a well-known issue, easily solved with SMONITOR.EXE
But we're talking here about a modern card - safe bet it's free of this issue, so the problem must be somewhere else...

That depends on if the issue is caused by card design and is not dependant on the TVGA9000 chip itself . I remember having that issue with a non DDC , TTX branded monitor when the tech was current . Also, unless the issue was specifically addressed in the design used for this modern card based on an old chip, I do not see why the said issue should be absent from the said design .

Reply 6 of 12, by DamienC

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darry wrote on 2020-04-16, 19:11:

That depends on if the issue is caused by card design and is not dependant on the TVGA9000 chip itself . I remember having that issue with a non DDC , TTX branded monitor when the tech was current . Also, unless the issue was specifically addressed in the design used for this modern card based on an old chip, I do not see why the said issue should be absent from the said design .

I would actually be relieved if it was a design issue, because then I can stop checking solder joints and traces. 😜 I'll try the utilities out first before I start probing again.

I also had the monochrome issue way back in the day with an early 90s vintage Samsung VGA monitor and the Paradise VGA card in my family's old 386SX, but that was caused by my family kinking the monitor cable so bad at the connector that the red signal started flaking out and eventually became totally severed. I actually was using that same Paradise card in the Micro 8088 temporarily while waiting for the Trident chip to arrive.

Reply 7 of 12, by DamienC

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Well, good news.

SMONITOR fixes the problem when the system boots in monochrome mode. That's making me 99% happy with the card's operation, although I wish the card wouldn't boot in monochrome mode at all and I still can't figure out why it's doing that.

I did point-to-point checks on the MONITOR pin of the TVGA9000 chip to the resistor, capacitor, and ferrite bead filter and pin 12 of the VGA connector to make sure everything was were it should have been and wasn't bridged. Everything checked out OK so I'm stumped. On 3 out of 4 boots, the card works like it's supposed to, but the other 25% of the time it boots in monochrome.

As far as that old game Archery I was trying to get working. It won't run at all with the TVGA9000 card. However, with the old Paradise card, the game loads with corrupted graphics and crashes to a DOS prompt at a certain point. I swapped out the V20 CPU with a spare 8088-1 CPU, and got the same results with both CPUs and both video cards. So I'm pretty sure that the game just has issues with the Micro 8088 board and VGA cards in general. The game works perfectly on my DTK Turbo XT clone, which has an Everex EGA card. Best guess I have is that this game just doesn't play well with certain hardware.

Reply 9 of 12, by Grzyb

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I just had a look at that card's schematic, and the TVGA9000i datasheet, and...

TVGA9000i pin 46 (MONITOR) is connected to the VGA connector pin 12 (Monitor ID Bit 1)

So, it works as designed.
WIth DDC2, pin 12 is serial I²C data, ie. sometimes 0, sometimes 1.
If you want a DDC2 monitor always detected as color, you need to disconnect that signal.

Grzyb wrote on 2020-04-16, 18:53:

But we're talking here about a modern card - safe bet it's free of this issue

Oops, I lost the bet 😁

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 10 of 12, by DamienC

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Grzyb wrote on 2020-04-17, 02:03:

If you want a DDC2 monitor always detected as color, you need to disconnect that signal.

Thankfully I'm using this 8088 system with an A/B switch to another machine and I have plenty of VGA monitor cables. I just took the male end of the VGA cable and bent pin 12 out of the way.

Rebooted about a dozen times, a combination of CTRL-ALT-DEL, reset button, and power on/off. Color every time.

I'm calling this issue resolved. 😜 Thanks for the help.

Reply 11 of 12, by MJay99

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Funny, I just stumbled across this thread, looking for nothing in specific - but, adding to the topic, I also built this card and found the same issue with this and an old TVGA9000i 16bit ISA on a TFT (occasionally booting up B/W). So, on the one hand, I can confirm this and on the other hand: thanks a ton @Grzyb, for the DDC2 hint!

Reply 12 of 12, by Grzyb

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Some more related info...
I've got another card with the same problem: Orchid Fahrenheit 1280, based on S3 924
Can't find an appropriate utility from Orchid, so I tried Trident's SMONITOR.EXE, and... it worked!
So, it's likely to work with other VGA cards as well...

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...