VOGONS


First post, by Fujoshi-hime

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My 'overkill WinME Machine' is currently sporting an AGP X800 Pro that I got for free after an eBay seller sold me an X800 XT, shipped me a Pro, and refunded me. While I am in no hurry to upgrade right away, I have been eyeballing an XT model of some sort. I noticed that the FireGL X3-256 is just an enterprise oriented X800 XT, it shared drivers, and generally goes for less money than the X800 XT. Is there any technical reason though that this wouldn't work in an AGP WinME machine that I've not read up on? Seems they're nearly identical for my purposes but if anyone else had first hand experience and I'd had to spend the money on a card that proved useless.

Reply 1 of 14, by lost77

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You probably wont be very happy with the OpenGL performance, if the game even runs. The professional OpenGL drivers are different from the consumer ones.

Also, the X3 is actually a cut down version of the X800 XT, similar to a Pro but with less ROPs.

Here is an example: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1575/12

Reply 2 of 14, by Fujoshi-hime

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lost77 wrote on 2020-05-09, 23:59:

You probably wont be very happy with the OpenGL performance, if the game even runs. The professional OpenGL drivers are different from the consumer ones.

Also, the X3 is actually a cut down version of the X800 XT, similar to a Pro but with less ROPs.

Here is an example: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1575/12

Oh wow, so that might actually be a lateral move more than anything and basically a waste of money. Good to know, thank you. =X

Reply 3 of 14, by darry

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Board compatibility can be an issue with the X800 series under Windows 9x . I was never able to install the drivers for mine on my Pentium 3 board . Geforce FX 5900 and Geforce 6600/6600GT allowed drivers to be installed (Geforce 6 series have been reported to have stability issues under Windows 9x on Pentium 2/3 platforms, but that's another story).

Reply 4 of 14, by Fujoshi-hime

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darry wrote on 2020-05-10, 00:12:

Board compatibility can be an issue with the X800 series under Windows 9x . I was never able to install the drivers for mine on my Pentium 3 board . Geforce FX 5900 and Geforce 6600/6600GT allowed drivers to be installed (Geforce 6 series have been reported to have stability issues under Windows 9x on Pentium 2/3 platforms, but that's another story).

That's less a concern since I'm already running an X800 Pro with no issue. But I'm using an Asrock 775i65G R2.0 which is a much newer creature than Pentium III boards. 😀

Reply 5 of 14, by kolderman

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darry wrote on 2020-05-10, 00:12:

Board compatibility can be an issue with the X800 series under Windows 9x . I was never able to install the drivers for mine on my Pentium 3 board . Geforce FX 5900 and Geforce 6600/6600GT allowed drivers to be installed (Geforce 6 series have been reported to have stability issues under Windows 9x on Pentium 2/3 platforms, but that's another story).

FX series fully supported Win98. 6 series did not.

And Radeons have poor compatibility with early directx titles. They are too weak for XP, too new for 98, and die hard and often. I avoid them like the coronavirus.

Reply 6 of 14, by Fujoshi-hime

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-10, 03:19:

FX series fully supported Win98. 6 series did not.

And Radeons have poor compatibility with early directx titles. They are too weak for XP, too new for 98, and die hard and often. I avoid them like the coronavirus.

I've been been having no major issues with my X800 Pro, but I am also largely playing later Windows 9X games, in fact I've been playing the heck out of The Sims. The oldest games I've realistically played are only NFS3 or Half-Life, both from 1998. So I'd be open to some suggestions on early DX titles to test for the fun of it.

Reply 7 of 14, by Srandista

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-10, 03:19:

They are too new for 98, and die hard and often.

What does that even mean? Are they working under 98? Yes. Are they overkill for 98? Yes. Does it matter? No, why would it... There isn't something like too new part in PC, definitely not in overkill builds...

And also, that issue with dying is definitely true for R300 chips, because of that stupid shim design, but not so much, if at all for R400...

Socket 775 - ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA, Pentium E6500K, 4GB RAM, Radeon X800 XT, ESS Solo-1, Win 98/XP
Socket A - ASRock K7S41GX, AMD Athlon XP 3000+, 512MB RAM, GeForce4 Ti4200, SB Live!, Win 98

Reply 8 of 14, by darry

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Srandista wrote on 2020-05-10, 20:35:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-10, 03:19:

They are too new for 98, and die hard and often.

What does that even mean? Are they working under 98? Yes. Are they overkill for 98? Yes. Does it matter? No, why would it... There isn't something like too new part in PC, definitely not in overkill builds...

And also, that issue with dying is definitely true for R300 chips, because of that stupid shim design, but not so much, if at all for R400...

Radeon 9800 (R350 and R360, think)chips are much worse deathwise than Radeon 9700 chips (R300) in my limited experience .

Reply 9 of 14, by Srandista

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darry wrote on 2020-05-10, 20:39:

Radeon 9800 chips are much worse than Radeon 9700 chip in my limited experience .

I meant whole R300 lineup, but let me rephrase that: "And also, that issue with dying is definitely true for R3x0 chips, because of that stupid shim design..."

Socket 775 - ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA, Pentium E6500K, 4GB RAM, Radeon X800 XT, ESS Solo-1, Win 98/XP
Socket A - ASRock K7S41GX, AMD Athlon XP 3000+, 512MB RAM, GeForce4 Ti4200, SB Live!, Win 98

Reply 10 of 14, by darry

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Srandista wrote on 2020-05-10, 20:43:
darry wrote on 2020-05-10, 20:39:

Radeon 9800 chips are much worse than Radeon 9700 chip in my limited experience .

I meant whole R300 lineup, but let me rephrase that: "And also, that issue with dying is definitely true for R3x0 chips, because of that stupid shim design..."

A lost generation from a reliabilty perspective. Maybe I should consider removing the shim from my Dell 9700 non pro if I ever decide to use it in a build.

Reply 11 of 14, by kolderman

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Srandista wrote on 2020-05-10, 20:35:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-10, 03:19:

They are too new for 98, and die hard and often.

What does that even mean? Are they working under 98? Yes. Are they overkill for 98? Yes. Does it matter? No, why would it... There isn't something like too new part in PC, definitely not in overkill builds...

And also, that issue with dying is definitely true for R300 chips, because of that stupid shim design, but not so much, if at all for R400...

Does compatibility matter? If yes, then too new is certainly a problem. Does dying often matter? I think it does.

Reply 12 of 14, by candle_86

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Have you tried unlocking your x800 pro, some would unlock with Riva tuner to 16pp, my x850xt was originally an x850 pro sapphire that was modded into an x850 XT, the x800 Pro and x850 pro vivo cards all unlock

Phenom II X4 840T @ 4ghz - ASUS M3N72D-SLI - GTX 560 Ti- 4GB DDR2 1066 - 1TB HDD - Windows XP
Pentium 4 3.4C - MSI 865PE NEO2 - x850 XT PE - 2GB DDR 400 - 500GB HDD - Windows XP
Duron 1600 - ASUS A7N8X - 512MB DDR 266 - Radeon 8500 LE

Reply 13 of 14, by Fujoshi-hime

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candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 03:46:

Have you tried unlocking your x800 pro, some would unlock with Riva tuner to 16pp, my x850xt was originally an x850 pro sapphire that was modded into an x850 XT, the x800 Pro and x850 pro vivo cards all unlock

Looked into it, this one is 100% laser cut. There's no software way to restore it. It's a Sapphire too but not the VIVO model that had it's units disabled by the VBIOS.

Reply 14 of 14, by candle_86

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Fujoshi-hime wrote on 2020-05-11, 04:30:
candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 03:46:

Have you tried unlocking your x800 pro, some would unlock with Riva tuner to 16pp, my x850xt was originally an x850 pro sapphire that was modded into an x850 XT, the x800 Pro and x850 pro vivo cards all unlock

Looked into it, this one is 100% laser cut. There's no software way to restore it. It's a Sapphire too but not the VIVO model that had it's units disabled by the VBIOS.

that stinks, well as someone with a fireGL x1-128 i can say if you can force it to use the radeon drivers it does alright, mine isn't quite as fast as a 9700 Pro, preformance matches the 9700NP using the omega drivers manually selected to 9700 Pro but it does work.

Phenom II X4 840T @ 4ghz - ASUS M3N72D-SLI - GTX 560 Ti- 4GB DDR2 1066 - 1TB HDD - Windows XP
Pentium 4 3.4C - MSI 865PE NEO2 - x850 XT PE - 2GB DDR 400 - 500GB HDD - Windows XP
Duron 1600 - ASUS A7N8X - 512MB DDR 266 - Radeon 8500 LE