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Oldest video card with DVI?

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First post, by 386SX

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Hi,
which is the oldest video card/gpu with Win9x/ME support having DVI and possibly supporting the 1280x768 resolution?
I'd imagine some Geforce 2 model, the G550 and some early Radeon models?
Thank

Reply 1 of 34, by aaronkatrini

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I think I saw once on ebay a TNT2 from ASUS with a DVI port. I was tempted to buy it but then I didn't need it and let it go. This was a couple of months ago... I'll see if I can still find a link.

edit: found another one!

I hope mods don't mind sharing this ebay link:
https://www.ebay.it/itm/ASUS-AGP-V3800-16M-Nv … dIAAOSw1nVeJ1Sj

However it can be found under the name ASUS V3800M. Cheers!

Last edited by aaronkatrini on 2020-05-10, 13:15. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 34, by Errius

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There was an add-on for the Matrox Millennium G200 what provided a DVI port.

Old discussion on this: Re: Legacy PCI graphics card with DVI

Eta: links:

https://multi-com.stores.yahoo.net/comg2dvidmod.html
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matro … _Flat_Panel.jpg

Last edited by Errius on 2020-05-10, 17:42. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 3 of 34, by imi

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there's some early ATi Rage cards that have DVI, but seeing as DVI was introduced in 1999 you'll probably not find anything older ^^

Last edited by imi on 2020-05-10, 13:15. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 5 of 34, by darry

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imi wrote on 2020-05-10, 13:15:

there's some early ATi Rage cards that have DVI, but seeing as DVI was introduced in 1999 you'll probably not find anything older ^^

VESA DFP came before and was based on PanelLink. Apparently, DVI cards can work with DFP monitors using a passive adapter. Reverse may or may not work .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_Digital_Flat_Panel

Reply 8 of 34, by Baoran

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This isn't exactly related, but I have a geforce 4 card that only has 2 DVI connectors and no VGA at all. I was just wondering if there are earlier cards that dropped VGA connector and have only DVI connectors? I am using the card with DVI to VGA adapter, but I am unsure if the adapter reduces the image quality.

Reply 9 of 34, by 386SX

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Thanks for the answers. I wasn't expecting a Rage and G200 card having DVI support! Incredible. Also I imagine the G200 with that DVD decoder module with DVI output would be a great combination! 😀
What about the Millennium and Mystique black connector? Was it a digital connection?

Reply 10 of 34, by Jorpho

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Baoran wrote on 2020-05-10, 15:07:

I am using the card with DVI to VGA adapter, but I am unsure if the adapter reduces the image quality.

Generally, DVI-to-VGA adatpers are completely passive devices: the card already generates an analog VGA signal and the adapter just connects the relevant pins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_ … rface#Connector

Conceivably, a card which has a DVI connector instead of a VGA connector could have additional circuitry that could degrade the signal – but that seems very unlikely.

Reply 11 of 34, by 386SX

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Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-10, 17:04:
Generally, DVI-to-VGA adatpers are completely passive devices: the card already generates an analog VGA signal and the adapter j […]
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Baoran wrote on 2020-05-10, 15:07:

I am using the card with DVI to VGA adapter, but I am unsure if the adapter reduces the image quality.

Generally, DVI-to-VGA adatpers are completely passive devices: the card already generates an analog VGA signal and the adapter just connects the relevant pins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_ … rface#Connector

Conceivably, a card which has a DVI connector instead of a VGA connector could have additional circuitry that could degrade the signal – but that seems very unlikely.

I imagine it depends on the adapter quality. Maybe the native DAC filters on the video card may result in a better quality as we can see the old differences between Matrox cards and the others for the VGA output, so maybe in the adapter a better design may improve or other way degrade the final quality.

Reply 12 of 34, by imi

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as long as the contacts on the adapter aren't corroded or anything there should be no loss in quality... could just use a DVI-I to VGA cable if you are that concerned :p

the DVI-I connector carries the same signal a VGA connector would, it just has more pins for digital as well, so there is no loss compared to VGA just because of the connector used.

Reply 13 of 34, by candle_86

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You can buy an active VGA to dvi adapter or active VGA to HDMI and then use an HDMI to dvi cable. That would let any card support dvi even from the earliest VGA cards.

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Reply 14 of 34, by cyclone3d

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candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 03:50:

You can buy an active VGA to dvi adapter or active VGA to HDMI and then use an HDMI to dvi cable. That would let any card support dvi even from the earliest VGA cards.

And the resulting quality would be horrid for certain resolutions since they would have to be scaled.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
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Reply 15 of 34, by candle_86

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 06:03:
candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 03:50:

You can buy an active VGA to dvi adapter or active VGA to HDMI and then use an HDMI to dvi cable. That would let any card support dvi even from the earliest VGA cards.

And the resulting quality would be horrid for certain resolutions since they would have to be scaled.

not if you get quality active adapters, dont buy the crap they sell at walmart or best buy, a good quality active adapter should cost around $60, and have proper hardware to convert the analog to digital signal without quality loss. The quality issues are with cheap adapters for 20 bucks

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Reply 16 of 34, by dionb

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I have an IBM OEM Number Nine-made S3 Savage 4 Xtreme with DVI from late 1999 - here's a stock pic of the card:

1200px-Number_Nine_SR9_SGRAM_AGP_16_MB_DVI_S3_Savage4_Xtreme_%2886C398%29.jpg

The production card has a heatsink of course. I believe IBM shipped them in systems sold with CRT monitor with DVI-A connector.

Reply 17 of 34, by 386SX

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dionb wrote on 2020-05-11, 14:47:

I have an IBM OEM Number Nine-made S3 Savage 4 Xtreme with DVI from late 1999 - here's a stock pic of the card:

The production card has a heatsink of course. I believe IBM shipped them in systems sold with CRT monitor with DVI-A connector.

You'll not believe this but I found that card today (:D) exactly like that with heatsink, different brand rams, different type of capacitors, same bios number but the latest above. 😀
I'll test it later. Also a Radeon 7000 (RV100) I didn't remember having the DVI already.

Reply 18 of 34, by cyclone3d

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candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 13:40:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 06:03:
candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 03:50:

You can buy an active VGA to dvi adapter or active VGA to HDMI and then use an HDMI to dvi cable. That would let any card support dvi even from the earliest VGA cards.

And the resulting quality would be horrid for certain resolutions since they would have to be scaled.

not if you get quality active adapters, dont buy the crap they sell at walmart or best buy, a good quality active adapter should cost around $60, and have proper hardware to convert the analog to digital signal without quality loss. The quality issues are with cheap adapters for 20 bucks

But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors supporting those resolutions / refresh rates?

At the very least you are going to get some aspect ratio / screen stretch / blurring unless you have an active converter that does letterboxing and runs the screen at the native resolution.
If it doesn't run at native resolution, then you are going to get blur due to scaling.
If it does run at native resolution, then you get tiny images on the screen.... running say 320x240 on a 1080p screen with the screen at native resolution gives you a tiny box.

I do have a fully configurable TVOne VGA scaler that allows me to configure absolutely everything. But that still won't fix some stuff from my understanding. I haven't actually tried it with my freesync monitor though... not sure I have the adapters needed to convert everything sufficiently though I think I might.

What I would like to see is a fully configurable converter that supports free-sync/G-sync so we can get those higher refresh rates back... but I doubt one will ever get made.

See here for another discussion on 70Hz output:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=68506

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 19 of 34, by darry

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 17:33:
But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors […]
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candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 13:40:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 06:03:

And the resulting quality would be horrid for certain resolutions since they would have to be scaled.

not if you get quality active adapters, dont buy the crap they sell at walmart or best buy, a good quality active adapter should cost around $60, and have proper hardware to convert the analog to digital signal without quality loss. The quality issues are with cheap adapters for 20 bucks

But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors supporting those resolutions / refresh rates?

At the very least you are going to get some aspect ratio / screen stretch / blurring unless you have an active converter that does letterboxing and runs the screen at the native resolution.
If it doesn't run at native resolution, then you are going to get blur due to scaling.
If it does run at native resolution, then you get tiny images on the screen.... running say 320x240 on a 1080p screen with the screen at native resolution gives you a tiny box.

I do have a fully configurable TVOne VGA scaler that allows me to configure absolutely everything. But that still won't fix some stuff from my understanding. I haven't actually tried it with my freesync monitor though... not sure I have the adapters needed to convert everything sufficiently though I think I might.

What I would like to see is a fully configurable converter that supports free-sync/G-sync so we can get those higher refresh rates back... but I doubt one will ever get made.

See here for another discussion on 70Hz output:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=68506

What about this slightly shady looking thing ?

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60439619877/FHD … g_140x140xz.jpg

EDIT: Would require an EDP to Displayport adapter and no guarantes as to whether 70Hz VGA input would do .