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Oldest video card with DVI?

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Reply 20 of 34, by cyclone3d

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darry wrote on 2020-05-11, 18:09:
What about this slightly shady looking thing ? […]
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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 17:33:
But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors […]
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candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-11, 13:40:

not if you get quality active adapters, dont buy the crap they sell at walmart or best buy, a good quality active adapter should cost around $60, and have proper hardware to convert the analog to digital signal without quality loss. The quality issues are with cheap adapters for 20 bucks

But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors supporting those resolutions / refresh rates?

At the very least you are going to get some aspect ratio / screen stretch / blurring unless you have an active converter that does letterboxing and runs the screen at the native resolution.
If it doesn't run at native resolution, then you are going to get blur due to scaling.
If it does run at native resolution, then you get tiny images on the screen.... running say 320x240 on a 1080p screen with the screen at native resolution gives you a tiny box.

I do have a fully configurable TVOne VGA scaler that allows me to configure absolutely everything. But that still won't fix some stuff from my understanding. I haven't actually tried it with my freesync monitor though... not sure I have the adapters needed to convert everything sufficiently though I think I might.

What I would like to see is a fully configurable converter that supports free-sync/G-sync so we can get those higher refresh rates back... but I doubt one will ever get made.

See here for another discussion on 70Hz output:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=68506

What about this slightly shady looking thing ?

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60439619877/FHD … g_140x140xz.jpg

EDIT: Would require an EDP to Displayport adapter and no guarantes as to whether 70Hz VGA input would do .

Pretty sure that is meant to hook directly up to a screen and not output to a displayport input on a monitor. Would it work? no idea.. maybe.

It would be sweet to modify a newer monitor with that for the input as opposed to the crappy choices we have for input now.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 21 of 34, by darry

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 20:52:
darry wrote on 2020-05-11, 18:09:
What about this slightly shady looking thing ? […]
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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 17:33:
But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors […]
Show full quote

But what happens when DVI or HDMI doesn't support the resolutions and /or refresh rates of VGA.. and what about the LCD monitors supporting those resolutions / refresh rates?

At the very least you are going to get some aspect ratio / screen stretch / blurring unless you have an active converter that does letterboxing and runs the screen at the native resolution.
If it doesn't run at native resolution, then you are going to get blur due to scaling.
If it does run at native resolution, then you get tiny images on the screen.... running say 320x240 on a 1080p screen with the screen at native resolution gives you a tiny box.

I do have a fully configurable TVOne VGA scaler that allows me to configure absolutely everything. But that still won't fix some stuff from my understanding. I haven't actually tried it with my freesync monitor though... not sure I have the adapters needed to convert everything sufficiently though I think I might.

What I would like to see is a fully configurable converter that supports free-sync/G-sync so we can get those higher refresh rates back... but I doubt one will ever get made.

See here for another discussion on 70Hz output:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=68506

What about this slightly shady looking thing ?

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60439619877/FHD … g_140x140xz.jpg

EDIT: Would require an EDP to Displayport adapter and no guarantes as to whether 70Hz VGA input would do .

Pretty sure that is meant to hook directly up to a screen and not output to a displayport input on a monitor. Would it work? no idea.. maybe.

It would be sweet to modify a newer monitor with that for the input as opposed to the crappy choices we have for input now.

I know it's meant to be hooked up to panel's eDP input . Newer monitors use eDP internally. eDP apparently can be adapted to Displayport .
So it may not be necessary to swap out a monitor's guts to use this .

Reply 22 of 34, by cyclone3d

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darry wrote on 2020-05-11, 21:28:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-11, 20:52:
darry wrote on 2020-05-11, 18:09:

What about this slightly shady looking thing ?

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60439619877/FHD … g_140x140xz.jpg

EDIT: Would require an EDP to Displayport adapter and no guarantes as to whether 70Hz VGA input would do .

Pretty sure that is meant to hook directly up to a screen and not output to a displayport input on a monitor. Would it work? no idea.. maybe.

It would be sweet to modify a newer monitor with that for the input as opposed to the crappy choices we have for input now.

I know it's meant to be hooked up to panel's eDP input . Newer monitors use eDP internally. eDP apparently can be adapted to Displayport .
So it may not be necessary to swap out a monitor's guts to use this .

Right.. but then you would be going through an extra circuit.. and would that board send the correct EDID info or any EDID info at all to the monitor? It sure would be interesting to try out.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 25 of 34, by imi

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did you try with a DVI-D cable?
I remember having had an issue with a card where it would output VGA unless a DVI-D cable or DVI-I to DVI-D adapter was used.

also what monitor are you using?

Reply 26 of 34, by 386SX

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imi wrote on 2020-05-12, 10:32:

did you try with a DVI-D cable?
I remember having had an issue with a card where it would output VGA unless a DVI-D cable or DVI-I to DVI-D adapter was used.

also what monitor are you using?

I suppose my cable is a DVI-D Dual Link cause it has all the holes and the single horizontal pin. The monitor is an old Acer TV that in the spec say DVI-D(HDCP). Never had a problem with any video cards, this is the only one I tried with this problem. Interesting.

Reply 27 of 34, by darry

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386SX wrote on 2020-05-12, 11:54:
imi wrote on 2020-05-12, 10:32:

did you try with a DVI-D cable?
I remember having had an issue with a card where it would output VGA unless a DVI-D cable or DVI-I to DVI-D adapter was used.

also what monitor are you using?

I suppose my cable is a DVI-D Dual Link cause it has all the holes and the single horizontal pin. The monitor is an old Acer TV that in the spec say DVI-D(HDCP). Never had a problem with any video cards, this is the only one I tried with this problem. Interesting.

Maybe there is something in the TV's EDID that the card does not like (either a video card BIOS bug/limitation or something out-of-spec in the TV's EDID) .

Reply 28 of 34, by 386SX

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darry wrote on 2020-05-12, 12:08:
386SX wrote on 2020-05-12, 11:54:
imi wrote on 2020-05-12, 10:32:

did you try with a DVI-D cable?
I remember having had an issue with a card where it would output VGA unless a DVI-D cable or DVI-I to DVI-D adapter was used.

also what monitor are you using?

I suppose my cable is a DVI-D Dual Link cause it has all the holes and the single horizontal pin. The monitor is an old Acer TV that in the spec say DVI-D(HDCP). Never had a problem with any video cards, this is the only one I tried with this problem. Interesting.

Maybe there is something in the TV's EDID that the card does not like (either a video card BIOS bug/limitation or something out-of-spec in the TV's EDID) .

I suppose too something like that. I see the card having a Silicon Image chip right before the DVI connector maybe something is also related to that chip work considering this is somehow an old card for having a DVI connection.
Anyway with a P3-500/i440BX:
3DMark99 - 4629 points
3DMark2000- 1890 points
3DMark2001 - 783 points
Sound fast for a Savage4 card! 😀

Reply 29 of 34, by darry

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386SX wrote on 2020-05-12, 12:12:
I suppose too something like that. I see the card having a Silicon Image chip right before the DVI connector maybe something is […]
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darry wrote on 2020-05-12, 12:08:
386SX wrote on 2020-05-12, 11:54:

I suppose my cable is a DVI-D Dual Link cause it has all the holes and the single horizontal pin. The monitor is an old Acer TV that in the spec say DVI-D(HDCP). Never had a problem with any video cards, this is the only one I tried with this problem. Interesting.

Maybe there is something in the TV's EDID that the card does not like (either a video card BIOS bug/limitation or something out-of-spec in the TV's EDID) .

I suppose too something like that. I see the card having a Silicon Image chip right before the DVI connector maybe something is also related to that chip work considering this is somehow an old card for having a DVI connection.
Anyway with a P3-500/i440BX:
3DMark99 - 4629 points
3DMark2000- 1890 points
3DMark2001 - 783 points
Sound fast for a Savage4 card! 😀

A lot of cards used Silicon Image TMDS chips before that functionality was integrated into the GPU . The only issue I have had with Silicon Image TMDS chips was with an old HDMI or DVI (I forget) Monoprice splitter that had weird display corruption (looked like bad video card RAM) when used with cards equipped with said TMDS chip . Any card using an integrated TMDS (Nvidia or ATI) worked fine with this splitter .

Reply 30 of 34, by NJRoadfan

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Almost every Matrox G400 card can have DVI added to it. I have the daughter board for my Marvel G400-TV. I think some G400s came with DVI stock as well. The cards support Windows 3.1x, 9x, and NT 4.0,2000,XP.

Here is the add-on complete with brackets if you find a G400 card: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Compaq-MGI-G4-MOD-PL … -0AAOSwBJxd~LPR

Reply 31 of 34, by 386SX

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NJRoadfan wrote on 2020-05-13, 23:21:

Almost every Matrox G400 card can have DVI added to it. I have the daughter board for my Marvel G400-TV. I think some G400s came with DVI stock as well. The cards support Windows 3.1x, 9x, and NT 4.0,2000,XP.

Here is the add-on complete with brackets if you find a G400 card: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Compaq-MGI-G4-MOD-PL … -0AAOSwBJxd~LPR

Interesting I didn't know of that module. Thanks.

Reply 32 of 34, by pixel_workbench

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dionb wrote on 2020-05-11, 14:47:
I have an IBM OEM Number Nine-made S3 Savage 4 Xtreme with DVI from late 1999 - here's a stock pic of the card: […]
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I have an IBM OEM Number Nine-made S3 Savage 4 Xtreme with DVI from late 1999 - here's a stock pic of the card:

1200px-Number_Nine_SR9_SGRAM_AGP_16_MB_DVI_S3_Savage4_Xtreme_%2886C398%29.jpg

The production card has a heatsink of course. I believe IBM shipped them in systems sold with CRT monitor with DVI-A connector.

i have the same card, with a heatsink. But ironically enough, I can't get it do go above 800x600 resolution when connected to my monitors. But with a dvi-to-vga adapter it goes up to something like 1920x1440.

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Reply 33 of 34, by dionb

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pixel_workbench wrote on 2020-05-21, 05:59:

[...]

i have the same card, with a heatsink. But ironically enough, I can't get it do go above 800x600 resolution when connected to my monitors. But with a dvi-to-vga adapter it goes up to something like 1920x1440.

Hmm, sounds like the DVI chip is doing something your monitor doesn't understand or vice versa when connecting digitally. Am tempted to test on my card now 😉

Reply 34 of 34, by 386SX

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Also of all those adapters there's the question about the latency they may or not introduce? For the game console of the analog 90's make it working on a modern monitor is a nightmare and not even older one has much better experiences when LCD. For the PC I tried the usual HDMI to VGA converters (passive) and generally does a good job if the internal converter and the monitor understand themself in resolution, aspect, frequencies etc... but I always would prefer a direct HDMI to DVI solution or DVI to VGA old adapters.