I never heard anyone complain that the Compaq 3500 isn't a 3500... because it is! 😀

Btw, during the initial boot, on the Vbios splash screen, what does it say? 3000 or 3500?
I had one but I don't remember...

aaronkatrini wrote on 2020-05-13, 23:18:

I never heard anyone complain that the Compaq 3500 isn't a 3500... because it is! 😀

Btw, during the initial boot, on the Vbios splash screen, what does it say? 3000 or 3500?
I had one but I don't remember...

Yeah it seems pretty straightforward to me but apparently some people question it... not exactly sure why. I think the silver heatsink makes people think it shouldn't be called a 3500.

As for the vbios splash, there isn't one. Maybe because it is a sample card or something like that. That's why I dumped the BIOS image to a file and had to read it that way. By the way, if anyone needs a copy of the BIOS file I can upload it at some point.

Well, the Compaq OEM Voodoo 3500 is actually the only "Voodoo 3500" that I know of.
The one with the dongle and black heatsink is called the "Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP", isn't it? At least that's what it says on the box.

There is also Powercolor EvilKing 3 Extreme, clocked at 183 MHz... so in fact a V3 3500.

that's nice :3
I should try extracting the bios of my PCI V3

Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-14, 05:25:

Well, the Compaq OEM Voodoo 3500 is actually the only "Voodoo 3500" that I know of.
The one with the dongle and black heatsink is called the "Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP", isn't it? At least that's what it says on the box.

All of the images I showed above say "Voodoo3 3500". I don't see any indiciation of it not being labeled a "Voodoo3".

As far as I know, the only Voodoo 3-like card 3dfx made that wasn't labeled as a Voodoo 3 was the Velocity 100, which was a smaller Voodoo 3 2000 with 8MB SGRAM, 143Mhz clock and apparently one TMU disabled by the drivers but able to be reenabled (though I've not confirmed this).

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-05-14, 18:49:

Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-14, 05:25:

Well, the Compaq OEM Voodoo 3500 is actually the only "Voodoo 3500" that I know of.
The one with the dongle and black heatsink is called the "Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP", isn't it? At least that's what it says on the box.

All of the images I showed above say "Voodoo3 3500". I don't see any indiciation of it not being labeled a "Voodoo3".

As far as I know, the only Voodoo 3-like card 3dfx made that wasn't labeled as a Voodoo 3 was the Velocity 100, which was a smaller Voodoo 3 2000 with 8MB SGRAM, 143Mhz clock and apparently one TMU disabled by the drivers but able to be reenabled (though I've not confirmed this).

Sorry, this can easily be fixed.
I didn't want to claim either the Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP or the Voodoo3 3500 wasn't a Voodoo3 card. I simply mistyped. 😁
My point is that if there's a "Voodoo3 3500" it's the OEM card and not the one with TV tuner and dongle. The one with the dongle is called "Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP".
Now that that's out of the way just to add to your argument: The card was even marketed by Compaq as "3Dfx Voodoo3 3500".

Edit: AFAIK "Voodoo3" was the marketing term for the Avenger chip with all TMUs active as well as the marketing term for all STB/3Dfx cards using the Avenger chip with both TMUs enabled (in contrast to Velocity cards with one TMU disabled aimed at the business segment). It's all marketing terms.
This is why other cards using the Voodoo3 chip will not be called Voodoo3 in the manufacturer's marketing but they will problaim the card runs a Voodoo3 chip or is "powered by 3Dfx Voodoo3" or something. Since the Compaq card is made by STB/3Dfx it definitely is a Voodoo3 card running the Avenger chip in its Voodoo3 variant.

what about all the 183Mhz cards that are missing the "correct" Bios ^^

from what I have read the Voodoo3 is mainly limited my memory clocks, so any card with 5.5ns memory would easily reach that.

it seems weird to me they didn't market them as 3500s.

imi wrote on 2020-05-15, 18:28:

what about all the 183Mhz cards that are missing the "correct" Bios ^^

from what I have read the Voodoo3 is mainly limited my memory clocks, so any card with 5.5ns memory would easily reach that.

it seems weird to me they didn't market them as 3500s.

I'll deliver the link later but originally the V3 3000 was planned to be clocked at 183MHz. Maybe that RAM is a relic? Or maybe they simply used higher specced chips when 6ns parts weren't avaliable?
I have a card with 5.5ns chips as well and now I'm wondering wether I can just flash the Compaq BIOS.

Edit: Source on original spec of 183MHz for Voodoo3 3000.

To add to the topic. The early Compaq Voodoo 3500 DFP prototype cards do have the "3500" tag on the bios chip as can be seen from the attached picture.

The STB Voodoo3 2000/3000 SDRAM AGP pcb wasn't deemed stable enough for 183Mhz according to a former 3dfx engineer even though there were samples that ran at that speed. Referenced here: http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/

Other "3500" tagged cards were the Quantum3D Ventana3 Voodoo3 3500 PCI with prototype cards having 181-183Mhz clock and production models 166Mhz for arcade machines. See attached picture.

This wasn't the only case where the "3500" name was used but clockspeed was different. 3dfx did sell to OEMs a Voodoo3 3500TVSI which runs at 166Mhz and has a TV-tuner . There was also the rarely seen FalconNW Voodoo3 3500 which ran stock at 200Mhz.

Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-15, 19:30:

imi wrote on 2020-05-15, 18:28:

what about all the 183Mhz cards that are missing the "correct" Bios ^^

from what I have read the Voodoo3 is mainly limited my memory clocks, so any card with 5.5ns memory would easily reach that.

it seems weird to me they didn't market them as 3500s.

I'll deliver the link later but originally the V3 3000 was planned to be clocked at 183MHz. Maybe that RAM is a relic? Or maybe they simply used higher specced chips when 6ns parts weren't avaliable?
I have a card with 5.5ns chips as well and now I'm wondering wether I can just flash the Compaq BIOS.

I mean most 5.5ns cards I've seen use the compaq PCB

G1nX wrote on 2020-05-15, 23:35:

The STB Voodoo3 2000/3000 SDRAM AGP pcb wasn't deemed stable enough for 183Mhz according to a former 3dfx engineer even though there were samples that ran at that speed. Referenced here: http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/

Full Link to statement (under 17th imag ... m the top)
I'm pretty suprised reading that since I've never heard of a reference Voodoo3 3000 card with 5.5ns SDRAM not reaching 183MHz and many will overclock to 200MHz with active cooling and run stable.
My 5.5ns card is dated 9940 and overall looks a bit different from the other cards (that also have their production date printed in MMYY format). It's a Rev. C board like the others though.
I'll investigate what speed the original BIOS clocks the card at.
Update: Regular 166MHz with BIOS version 1.00.01.
Update 2: The card runs fine at 200MHz but gives artifacts in 3D at 210Mhz. Didn't expect it to work though. 😁

imi wrote on 2020-05-16, 01:47:

Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-15, 19:30:

imi wrote on 2020-05-15, 18:28:

what about all the 183Mhz cards that are missing the "correct" Bios ^^

from what I have read the Voodoo3 is mainly limited my memory clocks, so any card with 5.5ns memory would easily reach that.

it seems weird to me they didn't market them as 3500s.

I'll deliver the link later but originally the V3 3000 was planned to be clocked at 183MHz. Maybe that RAM is a relic? Or maybe they simply used higher specced chips when 6ns parts weren't avaliable?
I have a card with 5.5ns chips as well and now I'm wondering wether I can just flash the Compaq BIOS.

I mean most 5.5ns cards I've seen use the compaq PCB

I'm sorry, I'm really unsure if I understand what you're saying. Are there Voodoo3 cards with the Compaq Voodoo3 3500 AGP layout and 5.5ns SDRAM chips clocked at 166MHz?

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-05-13, 23:54:

Yeah it seems pretty straightforward to me but apparently some people question it... not exactly sure why. I think the silver heatsink makes people think it shouldn't be called a 3500.

Afaik it was all about their existence as retail, not OEM. These cards were made for Compaq and no one could just buy them in a store, nor did they exist boxed. The V3 3500 you could buy always had a TV tuner and that ugly break-out box. Compaq made many other odd cards, like a Matrox G45+, which you could also never buy. It was a G450 with different specs.

This lists the card as

3DX, Voodoo3 3500 16 MB, TV-out

Case closed? Or is the 5 in 3500 a typo just like the missing f in 3Dfx? I think the former is more likely. 😉

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-16, 08:49:

If there's a Compaq sticker on the card, the BIOS is branded.

Why? Is this your personal opinion or do you have any proof?

I was expecting that no one would read the sentence directly after that, so I removed the whole paragraph. I have a whole box of cards to prove that. But nevermind, that leads nowhere. It's an OEM card, not more - not less.

Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-16, 08:43:

I'm sorry, I'm really unsure if I understand what you're saying. Are there Voodoo3 cards with the Compaq Voodoo3 3500 AGP layout and 5.5ns SDRAM chips clocked at 166MHz?

from what I've seen, yes, can't be sure though, might have just been people mistaking the Compaq for a normal Voodoo3

but not only AGP, there's even PCI like mine, while there are slight differences, I mean it's PCI instead of AGP, it's clearly based on the same PCB.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-16, 12:28:

I have a whole box of cards to prove that. But nevermind, that leads nowhere.

ok

imi wrote on 2020-05-16, 12:32:

from what I've seen, yes, can't be sure though, might have just been people mistaking the Compaq for a normal Voodoo3 […]
Show full quote

Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-16, 08:43:

I'm sorry, I'm really unsure if I understand what you're saying. Are there Voodoo3 cards with the Compaq Voodoo3 3500 AGP layout and 5.5ns SDRAM chips clocked at 166MHz?

from what I've seen, yes, can't be sure though, might have just been people mistaking the Compaq for a normal Voodoo3

but not only AGP, there's even PCI like mine, while there are slight differences, I mean it's PCI instead of AGP, it's clearly based on the same PCB.

voodoo3.jpg

That's the regular reatil 3Dfx Voodoo3 2000 PCI though. The Compaq card is clearly based on the same layout, absolutely. It's rare to see a 2000 with 5.5ns RAM and it's certainly a nice card you have there but it's not an OEM variant. The similar layout can really create confusion. 😀
Have you tried to see how far you can OC that card? I was suprised when I tested my 3000 AGP cards just now and found that one card with 6ns RAM clocked 10MHz higher than my only card with 5.5ns RAM (200 vs 210MHz) while being completely stable.

In the photo @imi uploaded there is a 3dfx Voodoo 3 3000 PCI.
You can tell from the big "silver-colored" aluminium heatsink and the tiny small heatsink on that Transistor on top it is a V3 3000.
The V3 2000 has a smaller "black-colored" heatsink, and the PCI variant also has that tiny small heatsink on that Transistor.

I went to look for, and found the old photos I took of the V3 3500 from Compaq I had. I have benchmark numbers to compare it with the regular V3 3000 AGP...with 3Dmark 2000.
Both cards were tested on the same mobo combo (Amd Duron 700, 192mb sdram)
- V3 3000 AGP - 2554
- V3 3500 Compaq AGP - 2635

If my math is correct, that would be only a 3% increase. And it wasn't just one run, it would perform "slightly" better on benchmarks, not noticeable on games though.
But I think the slow CPU might have been a bottleneck, unfortunately that is all I had.

PS. My Compaq card also had a sticker on the BIOS, indicating "COMPAQ 2.15.05".
Upon request I can upload photos 😀