VOGONS


First post, by ruthan

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Hello,
i have problem with 1st era PCI-E videocards and DVI output.. i was this on Radeon X300-X800 and on Geforce 6800 GT, picture from DVI is shaking and i has unstable rectangle on monitors that are 16:10 and im using aspect 4:3.
Its not happening constantly but it seems that it depends on card temperatures or how long is card running.

My question are:
1) What is causing it?
2) Its there some digital dedicated chip, like RAMDAC for analog ouput, responsive for it?
3) If there is dedicated chip, would help to located the chip and just add some heatsink on it?
4) Why is happening only on these old cards?

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 1 of 16, by swaaye

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Cards of that time can have DVI signal quality issues that lead to some monitors not working well with them. ATI cards do have some settings in the control panel for DVI compatibility. With NV you can make custom resolutions with different modes like "reduced blanking" that might help.

I think the GF6 is still using a Silicon Image chip for DVI? ATI had an integrated transmitter I believe.

Are you running 1920x1200?

Reply 2 of 16, by darry

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By that generation, both ATI and Nvidia had integrated TMDS functionality (that generates the DVI signal) into the GPU .

Two cards with GPUs from different manufacturers having the same symptom is odd . Are you using a DVI switch or splitter ? I have had weird issues with those before . Are you certain the monitor is not starting to flake out and maybe you just noticed on those cards ?

Reply 3 of 16, by ruthan

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Hmm, true is that i didnt see it inside to Dos, if im not wrong so.. it could be resolution related, i saw it in Linux for sure. Yeah, im using 1920x1200 monitors - I have old HP IPS 24 (ZR24w and LP2475W) ones... and cards are set to 1600x1200 for modern OS. Do you thing that decrease resolution, would help?

If it is only some SW issue, not HW one, there would be solution for Windows, but i doubt that for Linux.

True is that i saw it more on ATI cards, i have only one Nvidia card ( AOpen Aeolus GeForce 6800 GT) with this problem.

Other info to Nvidia card, is that it had in XP, problem that.. few minutes in 2D in XP lost picture, but no shaking, i changed cooler to big passive one, its now much more stable.. but when i ran 3D for 10 minutes or saw.. picture is starting to shake and after i god black screen, to it really could be termal issue.

I will make Nvidia card photo with cooler later..

With ATI cards, i also saw some temporary lines.. but there where not related to video memory, video memory was fine.

Last edited by ruthan on 2020-05-21, 22:49. Edited 1 time in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 4 of 16, by ruthan

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No splitter, no switch, but i see this problem on multiple monitors, but i tested at least 50 other cards with same monitor, most of them even with same cable and all were fine.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 5 of 16, by darry

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ruthan wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:43:
Hmm, true is that i didnt see it inside to Dos, if im not wrong so.. it could be resolution related, i saw it in Linux for sure […]
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Hmm, true is that i didnt see it inside to Dos, if im not wrong so.. it could be resolution related, i saw it in Linux for sure. Yeah, im using 1920x1200 monitors - I have old HP IPS 24 (ZR24w and LP2475W) ones... and cards are set to 1600x1200 for modern OS. Do you thing that decrease resolution, would help?

If it is only some SW issue, not HW one, there would be solution for Windows, but i doubt that for Linux.

True is that i saw it more on ATI cards, i have only one Nvidia card with this problem.

I will make Nvidia card photo with cooler later..

Do both your monitors display the issue ?

ATI used to have an option in their Windows drivers for alternate DVI timing, you could possibly try that .

I had no issues at 1600x1200 with a Radeon 9700 and Geforce FX 5900, which are even older . I have new a 1920x1200 monitor on order , so we'll see how that goes .

Reply 8 of 16, by ruthan

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If this problem is only with some cards and after they get hotter, its not monitor or cable problem for sure.
Also that this is working for some other cards older means nothing, because my could be damaged and your not, same with overheating.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 9 of 16, by darry

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ruthan wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:06:

If this problem is only with some cards and after they get hotter, its not monitor or cable problem for sure.
Also that this is working for some other cards older means nothing, because my could be damaged and your not, same with overheating.

What you are saying is logical and makes sense . It's just the fact that several cards with different GPU models from both ATI and Nvidia having exactly the same issue/failure mode seems like an odd and improbable coincidence .

Reply 10 of 16, by ruthan

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Here,
is image of Geforce 6 card and it has some Silicon image chip and if this chip is for DVI handling, its not integrated for sure and it would make sense to add heatsink on it.

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 11 of 16, by darry

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ruthan wrote on 2020-05-22, 15:31:
Here, is image of Geforce 6 card and it has some Silicon image chip and if this chip is for DVI handling, its not integrated for […]
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Here,
is image of Geforce 6 card and it has some Silicon image chip and if this chip is for DVI handling, its not integrated for sure and it would make sense to add heatsink on it.

2020-05-22 17.29.27.jpg
2020-05-22 17.24.32.jpg

Does it get warm or hot to the touch ?

Reply 12 of 16, by ruthan

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I can really access it, its at bottom of card, under cooler, but whole card, get quite hot. 6800 GT PCI-E is has TDP 55W im using heatsink from Geforce 240, it should be enough for main chip.. but original coller also covered some memory chips and this chip too.
I cant simply cover all memory chips, because of heatpipes over some of them, but Silicon image chip is free to add some heatsink.

There is some temperature sensor, but its probably only in main chip and it giving me constant 59C in Afterburner so i dunno, if its really working.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 13 of 16, by pentiumspeed

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If you are using zinc-based white thermal compound on bare die stuff, that's pathetic paste to use, only 1w/mk, not enough surface area, only good for ceramic large surface cooling like 486 and pentium, and that's about it, high wattage large surface metal top might not be enough. MX-4 is easy to get is around 8w/mk and should have tube of these in your toolkit. For important stuff and must have and little expensive but worth having is 11w/mk is Grizzly Hydrouant. The top of the line is 14w/mk, again from Grizzly's, not the metallic compound.

I get same complaints from stupid people who use chinese paste (grey stuff from that source and anything in between are also 1w/mk) in their Xbox one and PS4 under load, fan spin louder, I can make a console quiet and reliable using Grizzly Hydrouant or MX-4.

59C is hot. Can upset a weak chip, Get 99% alcohol and dribble few drops on the silicon image IC and see if that improves. Evaporating alcohol carries away extra heat causing evaporative cooling effect.

If not enough cooling a chip, if you have a canned air, invert it, that's basically liquid C02, same stuff as freeze spray is, and cheaper! Or air compressor if you have one, shoot a stream of air at the chip, spot cooling it.

I use 99% alcohol to wet a live board in order to find short via looking for boiling component circuit board old technician's trick of tools. Phones when got spilled on of anything that contains water (tea, sea etc, except distilled water, develops short circuits through electrical conductive liquid and corrodes rapidly when on, even low voltage, at metallic terminals of components and some develop short circuit internal (especially multilayer solid capacitor).

I also use alcohol of this type to dry out also to dilute washed board after plain or distrilled water rinse.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 14 of 16, by ruthan

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Some news, i rechecked HWinfo and i saw 4! gpu related temperature sensors within, strange is that after other reboot i saw only 2 of them and others gave we 0.0 numbers, so its not 100% reliable.

Numbers which werent constant seemed to be fine, in exception some very high max non sense numbers.

So i find out that VRM temperature is not good, it was able to go near 100C even in 2D, if you check card picture, because of PCB parts design, VRM heatsink is very small and its not possible to change it for something bigger. VRM heatsink counts on some airflow, or this cooler have to ve connected to main heatsink - there is only 1-2 mm distance on the top, so maybe with some thermal pads, it count be connected. Or maybe if someone is experience with solder 2 metal parts together - its not my thing.

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I added some small fan, above that VRM heatsink and its still much more silent not original fan and VRM temperature is no fine < 60C.

2D is now stable, but when i run 3D temperatures are still fine, but after i dunno 30 minutes of Unigine Santuary.. picture again starts to quake.

I added some small vram chip cooler on Silicon image chip, but maybe its not enough.. i have bigger heatsinks, but not with ready to use glue layer, can someone recommend some good heatsink glue from eBay?

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 15 of 16, by ruthan

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Here is how it looks with cooler, small heatsink is on Silicon image chip, there is place for something bigger, but it has to be glue and be balanced - there are not standardized size holes to hold it.. I would have to drill to some heatsink some custom places holes and it would need some workshop and skill - not my thing.

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 16 of 16, by pentiumspeed

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Didn't mention that video card is passive cooled, that's important. This really need different way to cool it not where the fan is, cool the fins instead then card will be more cooler.

The other video card Radeon card is also passive cooled?

My experience:
Tried and could not use passive cooled designs, Preferable cooling design is with fan on a heatsink that only take up 1 or 2 slots. Or 1 slot heatsink with blower also vented bracket or two slot and vented bracket for the exhaust.

Also should build adjustable voltage regulator circuit so you can adjust the fan speed for quiet but still cooling properly. Back in the day, PWM control was not there when I had athlon XP computer.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.