Try to find card with fast memory, 35ns will be OK. My Virge 325 with mixed ram 40ns & 45ns overclock to 87MHz, Virge DX with 35ns ram go up to 85Mz. VirgeGX with SGRAM memory @75 MHz will be a bit slower than DX @75MHz because slower chip, my GX overclock to 83MHz. I think that 8 MB of memory in VirgeVX will not bring benefits.

What do you plan to do with virge card?

candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-25, 12:29:

What's scary is the prices they ask on eBay for the Virge VX with 8mb of vram

There's one on eBay right now starting at $15 with $35BIN that nobody is bidding on, but I'd probably get in trouble if I posted the link.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2020-06-04, 05:29:

candle_86 wrote on 2020-05-25, 12:29:

What's scary is the prices they ask on eBay for the Virge VX with 8mb of vram

There's one on eBay right now starting at $15 with $35BIN that nobody is bidding on, but I'd probably get in trouble if I posted the link.

That is actually a 2MB card with a 2MB add-on from what I can tell.

Ah, you're right. The 8MB version is the big mama.
Weird, I didn't know that anyone would bother with a 2MB Virge VX. The only point of the VX was that it supported more memory and resolutions.

Lol that's my card, I've got a few to many cards

@candle_86.... you and me both. I have 1.5+ filing cabinet drawers full of loose PCI video cards.... all in anti-static bags just for any of those that would freak out about them just being stacked on each other in a huge mess.

I'm pretty sure I have one of the STB 4MB cards with the 4MB upgrade. Not sure where I stashed it though. It may be installed in one of my systems.

I have a couple more of the 4MB STB cards without the upgrade.

I was looking through my PCI video cards last night and saw that I have a S3 Virge/DX 4MB card with what appears to be 30ns RAM.

therevisiona wrote on 2020-05-23, 17:00:

EvieSigma wrote on 2020-05-23, 16:55:

So Virge/DX is better than Virge/GX, I would assume?

Yes, it is

Why should the older DX be better than the newer GX(2)?
Can you explain that?

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-13, 04:43:

therevisiona wrote on 2020-05-23, 17:00:

EvieSigma wrote on 2020-05-23, 16:55:

So Virge/DX is better than Virge/GX, I would assume?

Yes, it is

Why should the older DX be better than the newer GX(2)?
Can you explain that?

Compatibility ?

My reason for advising people an S3 Virge card has always been: compatibility. It's a great line of cards because it does an excellent job at running 2D apps and games without any issue.

In my testing I found the Gainward CARDEXpert S3 SMX to be faster than the GX2.
Overclocking both of them to the limit made the difference even larger.

For me it would be the Compaq S3 ViRGE/GX due to build quality and one of the less common S3 card that comes with VBE 2.0 BIOS onboard. The only disadvantages are that it comes with 2MB RAM without a very rare upgrade and uses SGRAM (which is slower on 3D games due to the ViRGE architecture, although there are ViRGE/GX cards using EDO RAM such as the STB Nitro 3D) but for 2D games it's not that relevant.

If overclocking is considered, Virge DX would probably be the best card. You can push video chip clocks with EDO memory a bit higher.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-13, 06:22:

Why should the older DX be better than the newer GX(2)?
Can you explain that?

The GX and DX came out at the same time, didn't they? I think they are more or less identical, except for the memory interface. From what I remember, most GX cards come with EDO DRAM for some reason, even though the whole point of them is that they can interface with SGRAM. The SGRAM versions that I see are usually OEM, and have 2MB that can be upgraded with some proprietary module.

The GX2 came out a year later, and should be faster. They seem to be a bit less common on PCI though. The Winfast GX2 card I have doesn't get much use because the output quality isn't as good as my STB Nitro 3D with the original GX.

Anonymous Coward wrote:

They seem to be a bit less common on PCI though.

Some claim that they don't exist 🤣

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-03-17, 07:50:

Anonymous Coward wrote:

They seem to be a bit less common on PCI though.

Some claim that they don't exist 🤣

Why?

A very exhaustive article about the subject:

http://retro.swarm.cz/s3-virge-325-vx-dx-gx-g … tors-deep-dive/

Recommended.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-03-13, 13:25:

For me it would be the Compaq S3 ViRGE/GX due to build quality and one of the less common S3 card that comes with VBE 2.0 BIOS onboard. The only disadvantages are that it comes with 2MB RAM without a very rare upgrade and uses SGRAM (which is slower on 3D games due to the ViRGE architecture, although there are ViRGE/GX cards using EDO RAM such as the STB Nitro 3D) but for 2D games it's not that relevant.

Yah I've got one of those, it's a solid reliable piece.

I dispute that VBE 2.0 is not quite common though, seemed to be on all the s3s my buddies had, even the trio models back in the day. I think what's happening is that the bottom of the barrel cards that nobody wants without it, are most commonly for sale and cheapest. Get into some "virgin" junk that hasn't been picked over and you'd probably find 8/10 with VBE 2.0

It is as well to remember the expectations for first gen 3D back in the day... it was expected to enable 640x480 gaming, de-slideshow it, when 15fps was regarded as "full motion", as an upgrade from 320x240 software rendered modes. Seems to be some school of thought out there that "If I get the absolute best 3D card from 199x, it will play 199x games at 1024x768 60fps" ummm no.

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-17, 15:42:

I dispute that VBE 2.0 is not quite common though, seemed to be on all the s3s my buddies had, even the trio models back in the day. I think what's happening is that the bottom of the barrel cards that nobody wants without it, are most commonly for sale and cheapest. Get into some "virgin" junk that hasn't been picked over and you'd probably find 8/10 with VBE 2.0

I have yet to see a single S3 Trio64, Trio64/V+, Virge or Virge/DX BIOS that does implement VESA 2.0 (And i've seen a decent amount of those cards, amongst others a ELSA Winner 1000 TRIO/V, a Diamond Stealth3D 2000 and a Hercules Terminator 3D/DX). There are 3rd-party VBE 2.0 solutions that work fine on all of those cards, like UNIVBE (later marketed as Scitech Display Doctor) or S3VBE20 by Dietmar Meschede, though.

Maybe I'm confusing built in BIOS support with VBE 2.0 extenders that came on the driver disks for s3 cards. (and only worked with s3) I remember being excited with UniVBE way back when as "Yay, my Cirrus Logic can finally do what your S3 does"

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-17, 16:40:

I remember being excited with UniVBE way back when as "Yay, my Cirrus Logic can finally do what your S3 does"

Oh yeah. I had Alliance ProMotion DSV6422 and it sucked so much until I got SciTech Display Doctor. S3s were much more preferable then. I remember how I could not play with QNX4 (its Photon UI) because my card did not support VBE2.0.