Not sure if it works, but the 4 chip IBM is EDO VRAM while the 8 chip is FPM VRAM part. So even if it works it likely won't be optimal. I'd try to get a matching upgrade if possible. But these parts are rare...

Pretty much impossible to find. Although it's not all that useful for 486 machine. And you still can use maximum 1600x1200 resolution even with 2 Mb, but just in 256 colors.

Ok, seems that i have to go on with searching.

It’s not important for using. Had upgraded my Socket3 VLB system with it, and i am very happy so far. I need the upgrade only for the quantum which makes me feel it’s perfect. The Diamond S3 968 VLB is imo the best (fastest card) card for VLB, especially with 4MB (ok, maybe there is a legendary, unobtainable Elsa W2000 Pro/X with 8MB - but not as fast as the diamond in DOS apps) Hope the memory upgrade is easier to obtain than the card itself 😉

Does the Elsa W2000 Pro/X exist for VLB?

„Maybe“, had never seen one ... but if there would be a better S3 968 with more than 4MB VRAM, then it would be a ELSA. Otherwise the list of equal competitors is getting very small 😉

Until I see some proof, I'm going to say that it's more wishful thinking than anything. I could possibly see an 8MB card existing if it was one of those dual display types though.

I don't see how 8 Mb 968 even would be possible. It has only 175 Mhz or 220 Mhz DAC, so you're limited to 1600x1200 in 16-bit color at best and anything above 4 Mb is pointless.

The Winner 2000 Pro/X-8 has a 250MHz DAC and 8MB VRAM, but known as PCI version only

http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/news/item … 55-s3-vision968

The pci version is pretty good in windows (still quite slower than the mga), but is dismal in dos.
Or at least thats what I see here.
Is the view different from your tower ?

but is dismal in dos.

S3 Vision 968 has more than enough horse power for any 486.

You have a point.
Let me rephrase - s3 968 seems to 10% to 30% slower in DOS than many common video cards from that time period.
Still, pretty ok in most cases for 486dx# class machine.
Better ? 😁

s3 968 seems to 10% to 30% slower in DOS

It's slower only in VGA/X mode, but you'll barely would see even 10% difference with any 486, even if it's overclocking 200Mhz wonder. But when it comes to VESA modes, it's one the best PCI cards out there.

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Here is my thinking about S3 968 and 486.
On a 486 class machine, considering a decent video card, when it comes down to non-accelerated DOS graphics - performance is hard CPU bound. As a result we are largely stuck in VGA modes. The 486 hardware does not have the strength for more.
For instance: even the best 486 rig can barely deliver ~20 FPS in Quake1 320x240, or 60 FPS in Doom, or another-low-number FPS in Duke Nukem.
Of course, there are some DOS apps/games that provide their own accelerated video drivers, but these are rare exceptions.

So even S3 968 does very well in high-resolution video modes, this is a minor factor for 486+DOS graphics. In fact it lags there behind most decent video cards from that time.

Silicon+driver accelerated Windows GUI partially decouples us from the CPU bottleneck - that's where 968 starts to shine.

VESA modes actually include 320x200, 320x400 and other low res options. 320x200 VESA is faster than 320x200 VGA even on 486.

pshipkov wrote on 2020-08-24, 20:08:

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. […]
Show full quote

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Here is my thinking about S3 968 and 486.
On a 486 class machine, considering a decent video card, when it comes down to non-accelerated DOS graphics - performance is hard CPU bound. As a result we are largely stuck in VGA modes. The 486 hardware does not have the strength for more.
For instance: even the best 486 rig can barely deliver ~20 FPS in Quake1 320x240, or 60 FPS in Doom, or another-low-number FPS in Duke Nukem.
Of course, there are some DOS apps/games that provide their own accelerated video drivers, but these are rare exceptions.

So even S3 968 does very well in high-resolution video modes, this is a minor factor for 486+DOS graphics. In fact it lags there behind most decent video cards from that time.

Silicon+driver accelerated Windows GUI partially decouples us from the CPU bottleneck - that's where 968 starts to shine.

VLB version tops DOS and Windows benchmarks on a AMD 5x86-133. There are only small differences between better cards in DOS. While in Windows difference is big.

What cards/chipsets do you compare the S3 968 to? S3 Vision family is a 1994 date chipset.

@The Serpent Ride
Agreed.

Hi kixs,
My retro interests are mostly within the 1990-1996 time period and around 2/3/4 x86 hardware.
Some of my findings: https://www.petershipkov.com/temp/retro_pc_im … rks/vlb_pci.png
it is from this post: Re: 3 (+3 more) retro battle stations

I have tested the expansion module with the 8 chips on both the VLB and the PCI variant with the 4 chips and it works. There is no loss of speed under both DOS and Windows.

Now i have a 4MB S3 Vision968 VLB 😀

There is no loss of speed under both DOS and Windows.

Try C&C Tiberian Sun, there should noticeable performance nosedive at 800x600.

I tested with several graphics benchmarks in Win95 @ 800x600x32bit. There seems to be no physical Impact in memory Performance. Why should games lead to a different behavior of the graphics memory because of an memory upgrade?

In general I think 800x600 gaming is to much for a (Socket 3) VLB system.

How exactly did you make this experience? With which graphics cards and graphics memory combination?