GF4 MX 440/460 is worthless to collectors

MX460 are somewhat collectable due to low popularity on release, also some MX440-8x cards like ASUS V9180 Video Suite or low-profile 128-bit cards with BGA memory. Basically best cards from G4MX family.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-08-17, 17:23:

GF4 MX 440/460 is worthless to collectors

MX460 are somewhat collectable due to low popularity on release, also some MX440-8x cards like ASUS V9180 Video Suite or low-profile 128-bit cards with BGA memory. Basically best cards from G4MX family.

Counter argument: The run of the mill GF4 MX 440 is historically much more relevant because it brought cheap working 3D to the masses and everyone and their dog had one. Can't complete your 2002 VGA collection without it. Still you just buy one for ten bucks (before you find out every third scrap lot you buy has one in it) and get on with your life. You're not happy about it arriving, it doesn't get you excited. Even though you need them for completion they're not worth anything.
I also just went and checked local classifieds: Multiple GF4 MX 460 are avaliable below 10€. Lowest Ebay price is 15€ or best offer. Either they're not rare at all and every collector has already got his or nobody gives a damn about them.
And then there are the unusual PCBs, ok. There's also that all silver one that looks kind of cool. So yeah, you're right, there are some slightly more interesting exceptions to the general rule of boring GF4 MX 440 cards. But what is that insight worth to the discussion at hand? Sorry dude, I think you're just arguing for the sake of argument.

Update on the card. I messaged the seller, it seems he has a tnt2 ultra but got confused and sold me this one. Funny thing is, he is mad at me for not realizing cause he wanted more money for it!!! I mean, heck it his fault for being confused as the seller.

Offer to buy the actual TNT2 Ultra from him... Then if you don't want it, flip it on eBay for way more.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-08-18, 16:43:

Offer to buy the actual TNT2 Ultra from him... Then if you don't want it, flip it on eBay for way more.

yeah I think thats probably what i am going to do.

Miphee wrote on 2020-08-17, 05:59:

So why did he wrote that specific name on a card he knew nothing about? The correct term should have been "unknown nVidia video […]
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shamino wrote on 2020-08-17, 02:15:

He misidentified the card but I seriously doubt he was trying to "scam" him. If you don't want it for $7 then it's a perfectly good reason to return it though.

So why did he wrote that specific name on a card he knew nothing about? The correct term should have been "unknown nVidia video card".
Would you be satisfied if a seller sold you a Voodoo1 labeled as Voodoo3? The pricetag is irrelevant here, if I want a Voodoo3 then I don't want a Voodoo1.
This guy wanted a TNT2 Ultra, got a shitty GF4 MX instead. Wasted postage fees, wasted time.
It's 100% the seller's fault so a partial refund is in order.

He screwed up. That's not the same as "scamming" someone.
If I got a Voodoo1 for $7 that had been listed as a Voodoo3, then I'd decide if I was happy with what I got or not. If I felt it was worthwhile to me for what I paid, ie I would have bought it for that price even if it was correctly described, I'd move on. I'm not on a mission to punish errors for their own sake, so I'll move on as long as I haven't been shortchanged and it's an item I'm happy with.
If the price was grossly out of line due to the error, but the item still had value to me, then I'd ask the seller if they'd rather cover the value discrepancy or have me return it.

When you start talking about partial refunds and keeping the item, the price is relevant to the question of whether that is warranted.
If you don't want the item however, then returning it is in order. Since it's the seller's screwup they would cover return shipping. In many cases maybe the seller doesn't want it back, but that shouldn't be assumed.

One of the reasons things can be cheap on a site like eBay is because you're dealing with the imperfections of a flea market culture. That includes not only imperfect merchandise but also imperfect sellers. It's not shrinkwrapped boxed merchandise from Sears, it's 20 year old loose parts that Doug found in his closet. The more you require perfection from that environment, the more formalized, expensive, and frustrating it becomes to use such a site. Personally, I don't think I'd bother selling a $7 video card on eBay because the possible issues that can arise aren't worth it. After postage and fees the seller probably netted $3, and less than that if he actually used a box. Many people would just send it to the trash. Some degree of tolerance is fair trade for the opportunities you get on sites like this.

shamino wrote on 2020-08-19, 07:10:

He screwed up. That's not the same as "scamming" someone.

Agreed but I have a very dim view on these mistakes. If the seller doesn't know the exact type of the card then he shouldn't call it TNT2 Ultra.
If the buyer told him about his mistake he should offer a refund & pay for return shipping then send the correct card if it's available. That's the price of these mistakes. If he refuses any of these then it was a scam.

shamino wrote on 2020-08-19, 07:10:

When you start talking about partial refunds and keeping the item, the price is relevant to the question of whether that is warranted.

A TNT2 Ultra costs ~$50. An MX440 costs ~$5. So with a $7 item he should get a $6 partial refund if he wants to keep it.

shamino wrote on 2020-08-19, 07:10:

One of the reasons things can be cheap on a site like eBay is because you're dealing with the imperfections of a flea market culture.

Ebay is shockingly expensive compared to smaller local auction sites. I'm not talking about the standard overpriced retro items, I'm talking about sold items. Ebay prices are tied to the dollar, euro and pound so sellers will set their prices accordingly. A buyer from Germany has different spending power than a guy in Serbia. Bidding and winning against them is impossible. Prices on Ebay can be 10x higher because of this.
Example: TNT2 M64 sells for ~$8 on average on Ebay. I bought mine for ¢50. The cheapest available on Ebay is $5 now. 10x the difference.
Once people get off Ebay they realize that this hobby is not that expensive after all, fighting against guys with more spending power makes it expensive.

Ok, so I talked to the seller and it seems like a legitimate screw up. He also has a TNT2 Ultra and messed up on which one he thought it was. He was nice and asked me what I would like to do. I told him I understand mistakes and the price, to me, wasn't so far off for that it was a massive difference so I told him it is fine, but I am also going to buy the TNT2 Ultra from him for the same price so I may just end up with 2 cards for $14. Which looking at other places doesn't see too bad to me. So I greatly appreciate all the help and opinions that you all have given. I just wanted to update everyone as to where it is now. 👍

Miphee wrote on 2020-08-19, 07:55:

Ebay is shockingly expensive compared to smaller local auction sites. I'm not talking about the standard overpriced retro items, I'm talking about sold items. Ebay prices are tied to the dollar, euro and pound so sellers will set their prices accordingly. A buyer from Germany has different spending power than a guy in Serbia. Bidding and winning against them is impossible. Prices on Ebay can be 10x higher because of this.
Example: TNT2 M64 sells for ~$8 on average on Ebay. I bought mine for ¢50. The cheapest available on Ebay is $5 now. 10x the difference.
Once people get off Ebay they realize that this hobby is not that expensive after all, fighting against guys with more spending power makes it expensive.

Unless eBay is just about the only option available. Sure there are other sites such as Craigslist, and apps like Mercari, letgo, 5miles, Offerit, OfferUp, etc... but there is almost never anything worth buying from those.

The people on Craigslist usually list their old stuff for more than the same thing is listed on eBay. The other apps very rarely have anything worthwhile though I did get an AWE64 Gold a couple years ago for a good price.

There aren't even any recyclers around where I am now. The last one shut down probably 5 years ago now.

If you have actual local marketplaces that even semi-regularly have vintage/retro hardware count yourself very lucky.

With eBay, remember that not only are you paying for the item, but you are also paying the eBay and Paypal fees and shipping unless it is local pickup.

I'm not aware of any "smaller local auction sites" that have anything of note, at least in the US

No offence but US citizens possess one of the biggest spending powers on the planet. Ebay was designed for US wages and relies on US wages.
It doesn't mean that everyone in the US can afford Ebay prices but people there have a higher chance to compete on an international level when it comes to bidding for an item. That superior spending power sets the price so high on Ebay.
This phenomenon mainly affects people in developing and poor developed countries. In those countries we rely on smaller auction sites and markets if we want to get hardware for an affordable price.
The US also has the advantage of being a huge country of 300 million. I see "free shipping to the lower 48" everywhere which means that you can get hardware from the entire country. It seems to be an endless supply compared to small European countries especially on the Eastern Bloc.

Yep... and even then I end up buying a decent amount of stuff from Europe even with the crazy shipping costs because:
1. What I am looking for is nowhere to be found in the US
2. The price that US eBay sellers are asking is insane.

As for shipping.. the "free" option is baked into the price being asked but the cost of shipping is not the same... further away the buyer is, the pricier the shipping is.
Makes sense but it kinda sucks for sellers when they sell stuff to a person that is pretty far away if they don't set the price on their sales high enough to account for that.

I'm almost to the point of taking away the "free" shipping option on my listings because it is getting to a point that it doesn't make sense to have that option though I don't mind not charging for shipping to the location that eBay uses for their international shipping options.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-08-19, 16:15:

As for shipping.. the "free" option is baked into the price being asked but the cost of shipping is not the same... further away the buyer is, the pricier the shipping is.

That's not always true. Most sellers who offer "free shipping" use USPS flat rate services to normalise their cost.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-08-19, 16:20:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-08-19, 16:15:

As for shipping.. the "free" option is baked into the price being asked but the cost of shipping is not the same... further away the buyer is, the pricier the shipping is.

That's not always true. Most sellers who offer "free shipping" use USPS flat rate services to normalise their cost.

The flat rate shipping is way way way overpriced though unless you are shipping something really heavy. This is why you see small items that have $10+ shipping cost applied to them even though the real shipping cost (even without the discount) is more like $4 or less.

Sure I could up the price of my listings $5-$15 or more in order to use flat rate shipping but why?

Once the weight gets over a certain amount, it is almost always cheaper to ship via Fedex. Last large package I sent was over $10 cheaper to ship through Fedex.

I buy all my shipping through eBay and even when not selling through eBay I will use either Paypal or go directly through the USPS website to get the discounted prices.

Mephusto wrote on 2020-08-19, 12:32:

Ok, so I talked to the seller and it seems like a legitimate screw up. He also has a TNT2 Ultra and messed up on which one he thought it was. He was nice and asked me what I would like to do. I told him I understand mistakes and the price, to me, wasn't so far off for that it was a massive difference so I told him it is fine, but I am also going to buy the TNT2 Ultra from him for the same price so I may just end up with 2 cards for $14. Which looking at other places doesn't see too bad to me. So I greatly appreciate all the help and opinions that you all have given. I just wanted to update everyone as to where it is now. 👍

I told him it is fine, but I am also going to buy the TNT2 Ultra from him for the same price so I may just end up with 2 cards for $14.

Oh yeah! That's a bargain, man! 😁 Please report back once you received the card.