VOGONS


First post, by RockstarRunner

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I've recently built a Retro PC, and i'm trying to identify if my Voodoo 3 is under performing.

Basic specs:
Gigabyte GA-5AA motherboard, Revision 3.2 with F6 bios.
AMD K6-2+ @600mhz
256MB PC100
3DFX Voodoo 3 3000 AGP

Windows 98 SE with SP3, Direct X 8.1

In 3dmark 99 i'm getting:-
3DMark Result 2428.27 3DMarks
Synthetic CPU 3D Speed 7686.21 CPU 3DMarks

As far as i've been able to see, the CPU result looks about right, but i've seen typical results for the voodoo be over 3000, making me think something isn't quite right.

Basic driver info:
Voodoo3(tm) Driver kit: 1.07.00-WHQL
ALi M1541 AGP System Controller 1.82

I have tweaked the CPU settings regarding write allocation/combining, to what I understand are the recommended settings, and also set the ALi AGP settings in the same manner. Values for these are in the attached images.

I've had no issues with stability, and am mostly happy with the performance, but it's niggling me that the results aren't what they apparently should be.

Any help/advice is much appreciated, and more info can be provided if needed.

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Reply 2 of 51, by Joseph_Joestar

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I'm getting slightly more than that on my Celeron 466 + Vooodo3 2000 build, but with lower CPU marks.

You might also want to check this out: 3dmark99 MegaThread

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 3 of 51, by cyclone3d

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Could be the unofficial SP3 screwing things up.

The really old versions that only included the MS updates and a couple other small things were ok, but the newer ones are utter trash.

I use the MS 2004 update CD to install the 98SE updates and then also use NUSB.. that is it.

The MS CD image is available on vogonsdrivers.com

That being said, I could probably run some tests though I am not sure if I have a k6-2+.. but I do have some K6-3+ CPUs. Pretty sure they will hit 600Mhz as well.

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Reply 4 of 51, by Tetrium

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-09-25, 15:31:
Could be the unofficial SP3 screwing things up. […]
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Could be the unofficial SP3 screwing things up.

The really old versions that only included the MS updates and a couple other small things were ok, but the newer ones are utter trash.

I use the MS 2004 update CD to install the 98SE updates and then also use NUSB.. that is it.

The MS CD image is available on vogonsdrivers.com

That being said, I could probably run some tests though I am not sure if I have a k6-2+.. but I do have some K6-3+ CPUs. Pretty sure they will hit 600Mhz as well.

Personally the 2.0 version of the unofficial SP for 98SE seemed to work fine for what I wanted and seemed much more lean compared to the 3.x versions. The 3.x versions were (afaicr) a reboot of the unofficial SP. Is the 3.x version of the SP really that much better?

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Reply 5 of 51, by mmmark84

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Im not sure if this will help you, but I ran 3dmark99 max just now on this system:

Asus P5A motherboard
AMD K6-III 550 Mhz
512MB PC133
Windows 98SE (just stock install from CD)
Voodoo 3 3500 with driver 4.12.01.1222

I dunno how much of a difference a 3500 makes vs a 3000.

3746 3DMarks
7799 CPU 3Dmarks

Reply 7 of 51, by Garrett W

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Could also just be Aladdin V shenanigans, it's been a while since I messed around with one. If the problems persist, try tweaking some more with the AGP Tool and take a look at what other users in the forum have used. Only compare results with other K6+ systems, Celeron 466 that someone above referenced should be a faster CPU overall, but it will score lower CPU marks in 3DMark due to 3DNow! on the K6+ CPUs.

Reply 8 of 51, by meljor

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I would say for best performance on ss7 (at least on Nvidia cards so maybe with v3 too):

win98se without servicepacks
directx7a
ali V agp driver 2.13
on any k6 5,5 multiplier works better as the 6x so set the board at 5,5 with 110fsb for maximum performance.
Also use 128mb instead of 256mb, it can cache more but is still a small bottleneck so 128mb is faster (and any game on that platform runs perfecly with 128mb).

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 9 of 51, by RockstarRunner

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Well.... I spent a good while reinstalling stuff, and it didn't help a bit 😣
Here's what I did, in order:
Windows 98 SE (no SP or anything else)
USB Driver
ALi intergrated driver 2.13
Voodoo3 1.07.00 driver
DirectX 7
Aureal SQ2500 driver
Used ALi AGP tool to configure the AGP settings to what I had them as previously
Used CTU to check CPU settings were OK

This got me a 3dmark99 score of 2422

Could it be something in the bios settings? Or is this just all it's ever going to achieve?
Damn, I feel deflated after all that work, and then get the same result.

Reply 10 of 51, by Joseph_Joestar

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RockstarRunner wrote on 2020-09-28, 16:57:

Could it be something in the bios settings? Or is this just all it's ever going to achieve?
Damn, I feel deflated after all that work, and then get the same result.

I use the BIOS settings which were recommended by 3dfx at the time:

http://www.tweak3d.net/tweak/voodoo3/2.shtml

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 11 of 51, by bloodem

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This doesn't really seem like a video card issue (even though the 3DMark CPU score looks OK).
If you have Quake 2, switch it to Software mode at 640 x 480 and run the timedemo:
timedemo 1
map demo1.dm2

With your CPU (assuming that you are not overclocking the FSB), the result should be ~ 24 - 25 FPS.
If you see anything less than 20 FPS, then something is choking your CPU or the bus.

Do you have any PCI cards, like a USB 2.0 adapter, maybe? If yes, remove it and repeat the tests.

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
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Reply 13 of 51, by bloodem

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Any USB devices? Maybe a USB keyboard or mouse? If yes, switch to a PS2 keyboard/mouse.
You mentioned that you installed a USB driver, I would also remove that.

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: LGA1151 - Core i7 7700k

Reply 14 of 51, by RockstarRunner

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Yes, the pc has an onboard usb header, which I have a keyboard connected to, I need that because it only has one PS2 port for a mouse, and has an AT keyboard connector (I don't have an AT keyboard).
So, if I disable that, then it's going to be hard to type.

Reply 15 of 51, by bloodem

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I'm almost 99% sure that the USB keyboard is actually the problem.
Just for testing purposes, remove the keyboard, restart Windows and run 3DMark 99 again (you only need the mouse for that 😀 ).

If all goes well, you can buy a PS2 keyboard and a PS2/5 Pin DIN adapter

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: LGA1151 - Core i7 7700k

Reply 17 of 51, by bloodem

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You're welcome. I hope you will come back with good news 😁

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: LGA1151 - Core i7 7700k

Reply 19 of 51, by bloodem

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Hmmm... disappointing. I’ve seen similar issues in the past, and they were usually caused by USB devices.
Unfortunately, in your case, something else seems to be limiting the CPU/memory performance.
To further debug this, you should remove everything except for... well, the CPU, RAM, and the video card. Actually, if you have another single 128 MB memory stick, it would also be worth to test it out. Also, Aida32/64 has some useful memory and CPU benchmarks that could help pinpoint where the bottleneck is.

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: LGA1151 - Core i7 7700k