VOGONS


First post, by Vany

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It appears that I have made this my quest to find the compatible games for this chip! Oh dear...

While this chip really is a 3D-capable chip, the fact that it only has 2.5 MB VRAM limits it to the point that most games and programs will *NOT* recognise it as a 3D capable device, regardless of all the settings.
The chip itself officially supports DirectX 3.0, 5.0 and 8.0 (with latest driver) but with some features missing. Some 3D games that require DirectX 5.0 and a minimum of 2MB VRAM detect it properly , other games will require DirectX 7.0 or 8.0 to be installed in order to initialize 3D hardware acceleration. No idea why.

Quirks:
- 64-bit data bus width.
- The 2.5MB VRAM is dedicated, and is not shared with RAM.
- Virtually identical performance as the 3DImage 9750, it is even identified as such by some programs.
- Can't use Truecolor at higher resolutions due to lack of VRAM, despite the chip itself supporting it.
- 512 x 384 resolution with 16-bit color seems to be the "sweet spot" between quality and performance. Many games will actually run the same if not worse at lower resolutions.
- It really does support bilinear filtering and transparency effects but it depends on how it's implemented per game.
- Texture transparency works in some games.
- System Info programs have trouble detecting this chip's properties, so the core clock, memory clock and other basic information is unavailable.
- Incorrectly detected as an AGP 2X card in most programs. This chip has no AGP, not even AGP 1x like the 3DImage 9750.
- Despite being named Cyber 9525DVD, the chip does not support hardware accelerated DVD playback and is often found in laptops with only a CD drive.

Note:
- I have only tested games with DirectX Hardware Acceleration under Windows 98 SE. I am not sure if drivers for DOS 3D Hardware Acceleration exist.

So without further ado:
List of Playable Games (My criteria for a playable game: Min 20+ fps, 320x200 or higher resolution)
Age Of Empires 2 - 1024x768, Max Settings, no graphical glitches.
Croc: Legend of The Gobbos - 512x384, 2D transparency issues, nothing game breaking.
Destruction Derby 2 - 640x480, no graphical glitches.
G-Police- 512x384, framerate can drop below 20fps regardless of settings and resolution, aside from scaling artefacts on 2D icons.
MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries Titanium Edition - 640x480, transparency issues, playable, barely.
Monster Truck Madness - 640x480, transparency issues, oddly runs worse than MTM2.
Monster Truck Madness 2 - 640x480, transparency issues.
-------
Nuclear Strike- 512x384, Max possible details.
What in the world is going on here? The game runs FLAWLESSLY, on HIGHEST details at stable 30+ fps?! Is this the only game Trident tested their chip on and called it a day? Seems like it. Had to check 3 times it was the actual 3D chip doing the acceleration rather than cpu. Not only is it doing the acceleration, but the Image Quality is BETTER when compared to software rendering.

-------
Touring Car Championship - 320x240, 2D and 3D transparency issues.
Twisted Metal 2 - 512x384, transparency issues, runs surprisingly smooth.
Wipeout XL - 640x480, transparency issues, runs surprisingly smooth.
Zero Divide - 512x384, no graphical glitches. I'd suggest disabling the backgrounds for a whooping 20fps boost.

Games that will run but are either too slow or have major graphical glitches:
[*]Battlezone - Runs OK at lowest settings at 640x480 but is unplayable due to transparency issues.
[*]Defiance - Managed to get to the menus, trying to play the game caused system to crash.
[*]Future Cop: L.A.P.D. - Same as Defiance, but didn't crash the system, instead it quits to desktop.
[*]Half-Life - Textures are glitchy and will fail to render after a while, resulting in completely texture-less white picture.
[*]House Of The Dead- Menus and Intros crawl at 0-1 FPS, however, your patience will be rewarded as the game runs surprisingly decent with major slowdowns every time a zombie hits you.
[*]Urban Assault - Manages to run without any graphical glitches, but is way too slow to be playable (less than 15 FPS when nothing is going on in the game.) and glitches up at lower resolutions.
[*]Unreal Gold - Fails to initialize 3D hardware acceleration without DirectX 7.0. After extensive tweaks to the config files, I managed to get it run somewhat smoothly at 320x200 resolution with every visual effect disabled yet there are still transparency issues. I do not recommend playing the game like this.
[*]SEGA Rally with Direct3D patch- Major transparency issues to the point that the game slows down to a crawl.
[*]X - Beyond The Frontier - No graphical glitches, but runs below 20+ for the majority of the time.
[*]X - Tension - Same as X - Beyond The Frontier.

Games where the chip meets the requirements but won't run:
RoBo Rumble - despite requiring only 2MB VRAM to run, it refuses to boot, citing lack of VRAM.
Hydro Thunder - fails to detect the chip.
Quake 2 - won't initialize hardware acceleration.

Benchmarking Software / Demos

Final Reality - Crashes at the end but the rest of the demo works without graphical corruption aside from textures being wobbly.
3DMark99 Max - Waste of time, only a few tests work.
PC Player 3D Benchmark - Disabling Fog and Transaprency effects yields good results.
Xdemo3 - Demo for X - Beyond the Frontier, and again, what is going on here? The demo looks fantastic, no glitches, runs at 50+ fps at 512x384 but the actual game runs like a turd?!

Tools:
3D Analyze (Latest) - program fails to start, with an error message.
3D Studio Max 2.5 - Hardware acceleration works but the chip cannot be used as a renderer, also there is a warning on startup about low video memory.
EVEREST Ultimate Edition - Does not detect the chip as a GPU and shows very little information about it.
HwInfo32 - Detects the chip correctly, but also shows it as 3DImage975

So what exactly is wrong with this chip? Bottom line
The Drivers.

I have tested three different drivers for this chip, one that came with the recovery cd, one from dynabook website and another from a different laptop with the same chip.
Recovery CD driver and the driver from the website have identical performance and problems, despite being a year apart.
Driver for a different laptop (4090XCDT) improves the texture rendering, less glitches, but at the cost of being almost two times slower than the drivers it came with.

When the drivers work, this chip outperforms S3 ViRGE GX in terms of performance and image quality. I'd say it's 50% faster compared to some youtube videos showcasing ViRGE's performance. When compared to the 3DImage 9750 which it is apparently based off of, it runs mostly the same, despite being on a PCI bus instead of AGP and with less VRAM. Both chips have identical graphical glitches and texture corruption in the same games tested. Amount of VRAM doesn't seem to play a role in this.

Verdict: I dare to say this chip was the GeForce FX5200 of the late 90s. It was probably the cheapest chip at the time that a manufacturer could put in their machine and claim that it has 3D hardware acceleration and Direct3D support. Still, what could have been a decent entry-level 3D graphics chip was completely ruined by it's drivers. It will play only specific DirectX 3.0-8.0 games that require less than 4MB VRAM on low-to-medium settings but nothing else. Also, requires getting used to transparency problems because most games will have them. When it works, It's overall performance is on-par with software rendering on a 300 Mhz cpu with better image quality. And yes, my Pentium II's software rendering is much more faster at the same resolution than this chip so it is officially a 3D decelerator!

System tested:
Toshiba Satellite 4080XCDT
OS: Windows 98SE
CPU: Pentium II MMX @ 367 Mhz
GPU: Trident Cyber9525DVD, 2.5MB VRAM
SPU: ESS Maestro 2E
RAM: 128 MB DDR @ 66 Mhz
HDD: Toshiba 4200 RPM, 30 GB

Support/Drivers for this machine:
https://content.us.dynabook.com/content/suppo … ds/s259vid8.exe

EDIT: Omitted OpenGL tests as it seems that the tests only ran in software mode.

Last edited by Vany on 2023-12-10, 08:21. Edited 24 times in total.

Trident Cyber 9525DVD Test, Review and supported games list

Reply 1 of 10, by Joseph_Joestar

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Nice review!

I used to have a Trident Blade 3D 8MB back in '99. Its drivers were also pretty crappy, but I remember running Quake2 at 640x480 and getting 25-35 FPS most of the time. Since it was my first 3D card, I was blown away by the improved visuals compared to software rendering. About a year later, I upgraded to a TNT2 and the performance difference was night and day.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 3 of 10, by Vany

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Putas wrote on 2020-11-08, 07:34:

AFAIK Cyber9525DVD is based on 3DImàge and has the same quirks. I doubt it could run anything at 1024x768. Is there really OpenGL driver?

Hmm, I wonder if that 3DImage driver can be used with this chip. Also, the OpenGL support comes with the driver that I used, but it is bare-bones OpenGL 1.0 with some features missing. Games that require OpenGL 1.1 will not work and usually crash instantly.

Trident Cyber 9525DVD Test, Review and supported games list

Reply 4 of 10, by Vany

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-11-08, 06:49:

Nice review!

I used to have a Trident Blade 3D 8MB back in '99. Its drivers were also pretty crappy, but I remember running Quake2 at 640x480 and getting 25-35 FPS most of the time. Since it was my first 3D card, I was blown away by the improved visuals compared to software rendering. About a year later, I upgraded to a TNT2 and the performance difference was night and day.

Hah, I bet! Too bad these laptop chips can't be upgraded in any way.

Trident Cyber 9525DVD Test, Review and supported games list

Reply 5 of 10, by Vany

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Can anyone with this chip or 3DImage try out 3D Analyzer? When I try to run it, windows claims it tried to do an illegal operation and will not run. I even installed DirectX 9.0 just to try it out but it won't budge. Windows 98 IS supported though.

Trident Cyber 9525DVD Test, Review and supported games list

Reply 6 of 10, by 386SX

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I suppose these chips were oriented for the few games they "ran" even with their problems. I remember having tested much time ago the 9750 and having difficult time to find games that rendered correclty but usually I was more oriented to later Directx6 games in testing instead of the early games generation. But lately I tested the Blade3D and it's really another world, the Direct3D rendering is quite good and stable in many games a completely different experience from the previous chips. Frame rate also is quite good and time correct multimedia players detected the Trident hardware acceleration for the MPEG2 decoding not that usual those days at least for the Motion Compensation part. OpenGL instead felt a bit on a beta status where it looks like the card is limited by the drivers before the chip speed limitations.

Reply 7 of 10, by dondiego

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It was an ancient chip from 1997 with DX5 hardware support. Most issues came from inadequate hardware rather than drivers. Of course they didn't support OpenGL AT ALL, so the OP was evaluating the Microsoft software driver.

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Reply 8 of 10, by Vany

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Small update:

After wasting my time with this stupid chip and its pathetic drivers thoroughly investigating how this chip "does" stuff, I made a small discovery: This chip only supports alpha-channel transparency effects. That means, texture masking, vertex-transparency and layers which 99% of the games from that era use are a no-go. In addition, while this may only be limited to the Cyber9525DVD, the image stretching/full screen scaling DOES seem to affect it's performance negatively, as it seems to run ever so slightly slower with it enabled.

BUT! With all that said, there's good news!

In a few demos that I tried, disabling transparency or changing it to alpha channel seemed to fix nearly all of its problems, including the white artifacts, textures stopped being rendered and in some cases, even texture filtering lines.

My next step will be to modify textures of some games with the above problems. My plan is to either re-do the textures with alpha-channel only, or disable transparency completely.

Thats it for now! Thanks for reading!

Trident Cyber 9525DVD Test, Review and supported games list

Reply 9 of 10, by RandomStranger

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A coworker just offered me this laptop. It has a loose hinge, but otherwise in decent condition. I don't know if I should buy it. On one hand, it's faster than my ASUS L7200, on the other this 3DImage is not a spectacular 3D accelerator.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 10 of 10, by Vany

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RandomStranger wrote on 2023-05-22, 11:41:

A coworker just offered me this laptop. It has a loose hinge, but otherwise in decent condition. I don't know if I should buy it. On one hand, it's faster than my ASUS L7200, on the other this 3DImage is not a spectacular 3D accelerator.

Hah, mine has the same problem with the hinge. I don't think many laptops had a 3D hardware accelerator chip in 1998, let alone in this form factor.
I am not sure if you should buy it, but what I can tell you is that the clock battery hasn't leaked in mine yet, still holds a charge. Laptop remembers the date even after months of being in storage. This, from what I can gather, is very unusual as most of the mid-90s Toshiba laptops tend to have leaky batteries that need to be dealt with asap. Make sure to check for that if you plan to get it.

Trident Cyber 9525DVD Test, Review and supported games list