VOGONS


Reply 20 of 26, by 386SX

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vetz wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:42:

The chinese product you're mentioning is an OEM product sold as Symphony 2 (53-000663). I have not been able to source any drivers for this card and the sellers online does not include them from what I've seen. There are two versions out there with same PN number, one with no VGA connector (EM8401 chip) and one with VGA connector and EM8475 chip.

The manual only mentions the following with the digital video connector:

"Digital Video output header (future feature)"

I suppose the old feature connector was indeed a "digital video output" connector itself (?) and maybe that name choice might be a "modern" way of name it or at least it's what I always imagined..

Reply 21 of 26, by vetz

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386SX wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:47:

I suppose the old feature connector was indeed a "digital video output" connector itself (?) and maybe that name choice might be a "modern" way of name it or at least it's what I always imagined..

Maybe, anyway I checked, the card I ordered is rev 2 with the connector so can test it out when I receive it.

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Reply 22 of 26, by 386SX

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vetz wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:51:
386SX wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:47:

I suppose the old feature connector was indeed a "digital video output" connector itself (?) and maybe that name choice might be a "modern" way of name it or at least it's what I always imagined..

Maybe, anyway I checked, the card I ordered is rev 2 with the connector so can test it out when I receive it.

It's difficult to be sure about it anyway cause it might not be pin-compatible with the vga feature connector and in the worst case might break something ( (?) maybe it'd help to read some original vga feature connector pinout table to eventually understand the pins) even if I'd not understand which would be the point of having that connector at first in that case. Or maybe there was some idea to add some external DVI connection if we consider the other SCART connector that sound like a RGB output for the european usual TV input that compared to the S-Video should have been theorically better. But still if that was the case it'd be needed another cable and possibly a spare PCI space to add some output. Who knows..
About the chinese 3rd party brand I wonder if the original XCard drivers/app would work on that or if they would search for some specific ID of the original cards only.

EDIT: interesting.. my version is a Rev S3 and it has not the connector (just factory not-soldered). Looking at the PCB only few differences:
-main chip still EM8475 but the chip revision is AT2 and not AT1 like the Rev S2. Chip's built in Taiwan late 2002.
-passive components seems the same but it has added a 16 pin IC close to the SVideo connector by Philips 74HC4316D that seems like a "quad bilateral input/output switches" IC.
-card's built in China in early 2005 but fully original brand/model and same P/N number
I wonder if they removed the digital connector in a later revision for costs reasons or compatiblity ones or simply lost of interest in it. Maybe cause at that point probably most cards already had DVI or had not the feature connector anymore.

Reply 23 of 26, by vetz

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The SCART cable was a thing when you bought the card in Europe:

SCART bracket:

Xcard with SCART cable.jpg
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SCART cable:

kabel3.jpg
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Some info on the different EM chips. As you can see EM8471 which is on the late PN 53-000663 from China is basically just a EM8400 chip (MPEG2)

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Reply 24 of 26, by 386SX

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vetz wrote on 2020-11-22, 16:27:
The SCART cable was a thing when you bought the card in Europe: […]
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The SCART cable was a thing when you bought the card in Europe:

SCART bracket:
Xcard with SCART cable.jpg

SCART cable:
kabel3.jpg

Some info on the different EM chips. As you can see EM8471 which is on the late PN 53-000663 from China is basically just a EM8400 chip (MPEG2)
10.gif

Interesting I didn't remember that bracket cable that I suppose can be used for both components and rgb both better than s-video. From that table I suppose the EM8470/71 chips were used in other devices like add-in modules or standalone dvd players; my card still has the EM8475 obviously P/N -000661. I'd imagine that also that chinese 3rd brand card had the EM8475 chip too, at least the one I saw time ago with the same layout of the usual XCard (and an heatsink too as said).
Who knows anyway maybe as the SCART bracket, the digital connector was not a feature vga connector but a possible proprietary to DVI cable with bracket for future projects. Maybe it'd not be impossible to build that with some pinout if that was the case. 😀

Interesting that card attached with the digital connector seems to have the Philips IC too I was talking about too while the one in the link above didn't have that. So there were quite some different revisions too as the H+ cards.

Last edited by 386SX on 2020-11-22, 17:05. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 25 of 26, by vetz

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The picture above was not my card, but one I found on Ebay. The card that is on the way to me looks exactly like the one on VGAMuseum http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/news/item … ealmagic-em8475

Regarding the 3rd party Xcard (we're not sure it has the same capabilities!) with heatsink, did it have the same layout as this card? As you can see the layout is very similar, but there as differences.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Board-Decompressio … 70/303774791827

It's the only version I've been able to find with heatsink on. All of them either have chip EM8470 or EM8475 and PN 53-000663

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Reply 26 of 26, by 386SX

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vetz wrote on 2020-11-22, 17:04:
The picture above was not my card, but one I found on Ebay. The card that is on the way to me looks exactly like the one on VGAM […]
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The picture above was not my card, but one I found on Ebay. The card that is on the way to me looks exactly like the one on VGAMuseum http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/news/item … ealmagic-em8475

Regarding the 3rd party Xcard (we're not sure it has the same capabilities!) with heatsink, did it have the same layout as this card? As you can see the layout is very similar, but there as differences.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Board-Decompressio … 70/303774791827

It's the only version I've been able to find with heatsink on. All of them either have chip EM8470 or EM8475 and PN 53-000663

Interesting. And regarding your card not having that Philips IC (the Dragon V card seems to have that or a similar) it'd be interesting to understand if that IC is involved into the separation of the VGA in and VGA out or what.
That chinese card is the one I was talking about and I agree we don't know a lot about it but what I notice is a cheaper chip package even if I'm not sure about the chip cause in that table attached above it'd not have sense: it seems to have both the A/V input option (pass-through cable?) and the Analog audio output jack and the VGA output too (DAC?), so I wonder if it's just a cheaper or older package of the EM8475 or that chip table might be more complex but who knows. Also interesting there's the Sigma brand name on the PCB and the card's built in 2012 with 2002 tech. The heatsink might have had a sense the older EM8300 already heat up a bit, the EM8475 with the BGA chip too.

Anyway I was thinking again to the manual line "Digital Video output header (future feature)" and I really suspect that it might not be the classic feature connector and I'd not connect it to the vga risking the card or the vga... cause that "header (future feature)" sounds really like a bracket add-in solution.