harryshuman wrote on 2020-12-06, 19:08:

I have been trying to get my Quadro FX 3450 to work in Windows 98. I am using Pentium 4 3.0Ghz on 775 Socket with D915GEV mobo. […]
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I have been trying to get my Quadro FX 3450 to work in Windows 98. I am using Pentium 4 3.0Ghz on 775 Socket with D915GEV mobo.

First of all, setting the Video Config in BIOS to PCIE will make Win98 to blackout the moment it loads. But setting the config to PCI, allows Win98 to at least output a picture with the default VESA drivers. So I guess it is possible to use PCI-E cards with Windows 98.

Now, Quadro FX 3450 is very similar to GeForce 6800, it's using the same NV41 chip. So in theory it should be able to use GeForce 6800 drivers, which is the last card supported by Windows 98.

I have tried using the 6800 driver installer directly, but it throws an error saying the PCI-identification is mismatching.

How can one force the driver to install?

Have you installed Intel chipset drivers for your board ?

I would try extracting the driver files to a folder, modifying the IDs in the inf to match your card and installing via device manager .

If you need assistance with that, post a link to the driver you want to use and post PCI device info for your card using PCIList from here https://m.majorgeeks.com/files/details/pci_list.html

darry wrote on 2020-12-06, 19:20:

Have you installed Intel chipset drivers for your board ? […]
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harryshuman wrote on 2020-12-06, 19:08:

I have been trying to get my Quadro FX 3450 to work in Windows 98. I am using Pentium 4 3.0Ghz on 775 Socket with D915GEV mobo. […]
Show full quote

I have been trying to get my Quadro FX 3450 to work in Windows 98. I am using Pentium 4 3.0Ghz on 775 Socket with D915GEV mobo.

First of all, setting the Video Config in BIOS to PCIE will make Win98 to blackout the moment it loads. But setting the config to PCI, allows Win98 to at least output a picture with the default VESA drivers. So I guess it is possible to use PCI-E cards with Windows 98.

Now, Quadro FX 3450 is very similar to GeForce 6800, it's using the same NV41 chip. So in theory it should be able to use GeForce 6800 drivers, which is the last card supported by Windows 98.

I have tried using the 6800 driver installer directly, but it throws an error saying the PCI-identification is mismatching.

How can one force the driver to install?

Have you installed Intel chipset drivers for your board ?

I would try extracting the driver files to a folder, modifying the IDs in the inf to match your card and installing via device manager .

If you need assistance with that, post a link to the driver you want to use and post PCI device info for your card using PCIList from here https://m.majorgeeks.com/files/details/pci_list.html

Yes, I have installed the chipset drivers.

Can you tell me what files to modify and which fields? I'm looking for an example.

How can one force the driver to install?

Simple. Use RivaTuner. But AFAIK you can use it as it is. Forceware drivers had device IDs for Quadro cards, so just match it with similar Quadro card with NV40 chip.

darry wrote on 2020-12-06, 19:20:

Have you installed Intel chipset drivers for your board ? […]
Show full quote

harryshuman wrote on 2020-12-06, 19:08:

I have been trying to get my Quadro FX 3450 to work in Windows 98. I am using Pentium 4 3.0Ghz on 775 Socket with D915GEV mobo. […]
Show full quote

I have been trying to get my Quadro FX 3450 to work in Windows 98. I am using Pentium 4 3.0Ghz on 775 Socket with D915GEV mobo.

First of all, setting the Video Config in BIOS to PCIE will make Win98 to blackout the moment it loads. But setting the config to PCI, allows Win98 to at least output a picture with the default VESA drivers. So I guess it is possible to use PCI-E cards with Windows 98.

Now, Quadro FX 3450 is very similar to GeForce 6800, it's using the same NV41 chip. So in theory it should be able to use GeForce 6800 drivers, which is the last card supported by Windows 98.

I have tried using the 6800 driver installer directly, but it throws an error saying the PCI-identification is mismatching.

How can one force the driver to install?

Have you installed Intel chipset drivers for your board ?

I would try extracting the driver files to a folder, modifying the IDs in the inf to match your card and installing via device manager .

If you need assistance with that, post a link to the driver you want to use and post PCI device info for your card using PCIList from here https://m.majorgeeks.com/files/details/pci_list.html

As requested:

Here's the link to the driver I want to use: https://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDownload … us&type=GeForce

Here's the info from the app about the PCI VGA adapter:

Vendor - nVidia
Device type - PCI VGA controller
Manufacturer - nVidia

Vendor ID - 10DEh
Device ID - 00CDh
Subsystem ID - 029Bh
Revision - A2h
Class code - 3.0
Subvendor ID - 10DEh

Here's the generated report:
CPU speed - 0 MHz
DirectX - not initialized
AGP revision - no AGP devices found
VGA IRQ - 11, shared
System board AGP transfer support - n/a
Graphics card AGP transfer support - n/a
AGP traffic currently enabled - n/a
System board SBA - n/a
Graphics card SBA - n/a
AGP sideband currently enabled - no
Pipelined transactions - n/a
Fast write protocol - n/a

Devices:
Intel CPU bridge (25808086h)
Intel PCI bridge (25818086h) - IRQ11
Intel multimedia device (26688086h) - IRQ11
Intel PCI bridge (26608086h) - IRQ4
Intel PCI bridge (26628086h) - IRQ11
Intel PCI bridge (26648086h) - IRQ10
Intel PCI bridge (26668086h) - IRQ9
Intel USB (26588086h) - IRQ5
Intel USB (26598086h) - IRQ9
Intel USB (265A8086h) - IRQ10
Intel USB (265B8086h) - IRQ11
Intel PCI bridge (244E8086h)
Intel ISA bridge (26408086h)
Intel IDE controller (26518086h)
Intel SMBus (266A8086h) - IRQ9
nVidia VGA controller (00CD10DEh) - IRQ11

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-06, 20:40:

How can one force the driver to install?

Simple. Use RivaTuner. But AFAIK you can use it as it is. Forceware drivers had device IDs for Quadro cards, so just match it with similar Quadro card with NV40 chip.

Purely hypothetically speaking. If one modifies the Device ID, restarts, and RivaTuner doesn't allow any further changes to the Device ID, how bad is it?

Also, I tried changing the device type in RivaTuner. I changed it to GeForce 6800 and 6800 XT, both of which were built using NV42 chip but when I restart and try to install the NVidia drivers it still throws the same PCI Identification issue.

Try uncompressing this file into the folder where you uncompressed the driver and then try installing through device manager .

darry wrote on 2020-12-07, 02:02:

Try uncompressing this file into the folder where you uncompressed the driver and then try installing through device manager .

NV_mod.zip

Hey, thanks. Actually while I waited I tried doing something like that and for whatever reason it didn't work. So I kinda tried it another way, and I think I came to the same solution.

I then tried to dig into it, and perhaps the issue with the drivers sorta made sense. Geforce 6800/Quadro 3450 was one of those weird cases that used 3 different chips. NV40, NV41 and NV42. I was technically correct to assume that NV41 and NV42 are identical, however, they were never supported by Windows 98. The official driver packs for Windows 98 list device ID 0211h which is the NV40 variant.

This made it impossible to modify the ID via RivaTuner as well, as it was just letting me use other 00C[x]h series IDs. I don't know why NV41 and NV42 aren't supported, they are in Win2k drivers of the same revision.

Anyhow, I then realized there's an unofficial Windows 98 drivers version 82.69 that are meant to support everything up to the the Geforce 7, which of course supports Geforce 6800 with later NV41/42 chips.

However, when I looked into the device listings that came with 82.69, there was no Quadro 3450, but all the later GeForce 6800s were present. I kinda guessed whoever made this build, probably based the files on the Win2K drivers and perhaps they simply forgot to add the Quadro 3450 card to it.... so I just went ahead and added it myself. I used the Win2K device listings as basis and modified it for the format used in Win98 file. It worked flawlessly.

Can you imagine? I now have a Windows 98 machine with a what is essentially a freaking GeForce 6800 XT in it. Now that's what I call an ultimate Windows 98 PC. I tested it with 3D Mark 99 and it worked great. I don't expect to run anything other than DOS games in it, and I have dual boot Windows 2000 and Windows XP on the same computer anyway.

... and to think those cards are considered junk and are sold for $20 or less.

harryshuman wrote on 2020-12-07, 03:28:

Hey, thanks. Actually while I waited I tried doing something like that and for whatever reason it didn't work. So I kinda tried […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2020-12-07, 02:02:

Try uncompressing this file into the folder where you uncompressed the driver and then try installing through device manager .

NV_mod.zip

Hey, thanks. Actually while I waited I tried doing something like that and for whatever reason it didn't work. So I kinda tried it another way, and I think I came to the same solution.

I then tried to dig into it, and perhaps the issue with the drivers sorta made sense. Geforce 6800/Quadro 3450 was one of those weird cases that used 3 different chips. NV40, NV41 and NV42. I was technically correct to assume that NV41 and NV42 are identical, however, they were never supported by Windows 98. The official driver packs for Windows 98 list device ID 0211h which is the NV40 variant.

This made it impossible to modify the ID via RivaTuner as well, as it was just letting me use other 00C[x]h series IDs. I don't know why NV41 and NV42 aren't supported, they are in Win2k drivers of the same revision.

Anyhow, I then realized there's an unofficial Windows 98 drivers version 82.69 that are meant to support everything up to the the Geforce 7, which of course supports Geforce 6800 with later NV41/42 chips.

However, when I looked into the device listings that came with 82.69, there was no Quadro 3450, but all the later GeForce 6800s were present. I kinda guessed whoever made this build, probably based the files on the Win2K drivers and perhaps they simply forgot to add the Quadro 3450 card to it.... so I just went ahead and added it myself. I used the Win2K device listings as basis and modified it for the format used in Win98 file. It worked flawlessly.

Can you imagine? I now have a Windows 98 machine with a what is essentially a freaking GeForce 6800 XT in it. Now that's what I call an ultimate Windows 98 PC. I tested it with 3D Mark 99 and it worked great. I don't expect to run anything other than DOS games in it, and I have dual boot Windows 2000 and Windows XP on the same computer anyway.

... and to think those cards are considered junk and are sold for $20 or less.

That is great news! I am really happy that you got it to work.

any chance you can share this driver? =D

harryshuman wrote on 2020-12-07, 03:28:

Hey, thanks. Actually while I waited I tried doing something like that and for whatever reason it didn't work. So I kinda tried […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2020-12-07, 02:02:

Try uncompressing this file into the folder where you uncompressed the driver and then try installing through device manager .

NV_mod.zip

Hey, thanks. Actually while I waited I tried doing something like that and for whatever reason it didn't work. So I kinda tried it another way, and I think I came to the same solution.

I then tried to dig into it, and perhaps the issue with the drivers sorta made sense. Geforce 6800/Quadro 3450 was one of those weird cases that used 3 different chips. NV40, NV41 and NV42. I was technically correct to assume that NV41 and NV42 are identical, however, they were never supported by Windows 98. The official driver packs for Windows 98 list device ID 0211h which is the NV40 variant.

This made it impossible to modify the ID via RivaTuner as well, as it was just letting me use other 00C[x]h series IDs. I don't know why NV41 and NV42 aren't supported, they are in Win2k drivers of the same revision.

Anyhow, I then realized there's an unofficial Windows 98 drivers version 82.69 that are meant to support everything up to the the Geforce 7, which of course supports Geforce 6800 with later NV41/42 chips.

However, when I looked into the device listings that came with 82.69, there was no Quadro 3450, but all the later GeForce 6800s were present. I kinda guessed whoever made this build, probably based the files on the Win2K drivers and perhaps they simply forgot to add the Quadro 3450 card to it.... so I just went ahead and added it myself. I used the Win2K device listings as basis and modified it for the format used in Win98 file. It worked flawlessly.

Can you imagine? I now have a Windows 98 machine with a what is essentially a freaking GeForce 6800 XT in it. Now that's what I call an ultimate Windows 98 PC. I tested it with 3D Mark 99 and it worked great. I don't expect to run anything other than DOS games in it, and I have dual boot Windows 2000 and Windows XP on the same computer anyway.

... and to think those cards are considered junk and are sold for $20 or less.

+1 on the driver waiting list 😀

harryshuman wrote on 2020-12-07, 03:28:

Can you imagine? I now have a Windows 98 machine with a what is essentially a freaking GeForce 6800 XT in it. Now that's what I call an ultimate Windows 98 PC. I tested it with 3D Mark 99 and it worked great. I don't expect to run anything other than DOS games in it, and I have dual boot Windows 2000 and Windows XP on the same computer anyway.

... and to think those cards are considered junk and are sold for $20 or less.

Forceware 81.85 supports the 6800 XT. It also supports the LE, GT and Ultra. The XT variant has half it's shaders disabled, making it essentially a 6600GT with a 256bit memory interface, so not the fastest '98 card, that would be the 6800 Ultra (from nvidia). The fastest win98 card would be the X850XT tough, it is slightly faster then the 6800 Ultra.

Looking the Quadro 3450 on techpowerup, it is closer to a 6800 and 6800GS variants, with a 12/5/12/12 core configuration, as the 6800XT and LE only have 8/6/8/8 shaders enabled (apart from the leadtek A400 witch identifies as an LE, but is in fact a GS). The shaders can be re-enabled via software using riva tuner, turning any 6800 variant into a GT. Not all cards will work correctly with all shaders enabled, but from my experience 4 out of 5 cards will. The cool thing about the Quadro FX 3450 and 3400 is that they run 500MHZ (1000MHz effective) memory, so if you unlock the rest of the shaders, you effectively get a 6800GT.

Looking trough all win98 supported devices it seems the Quadro 3400 is listed, but not the 3450. I wonder if the 3450 can be flashed with a Geforce bios, it is essentially an NV41: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-nv41.g162

That would permanently solve the win98 driver issue.

1nvidia_9x_81.85 - October 2005
2
3NVIDIA&DEV_0110.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400"
4NVIDIA&DEV_0111.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200"
5NVIDIA&DEV_0113.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro2 MXR/EX"
6NVIDIA&DEV_01A0.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce2 Integrated GPU"
7NVIDIA&DEV_0170.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 460"
8NVIDIA&DEV_0171.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440"
9NVIDIA&DEV_0172.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420"
10NVIDIA&DEV_0173.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440-SE"
11NVIDIA&DEV_0178.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 550 XGL"
12NVIDIA&DEV_017A.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro NVS"
13NVIDIA&DEV_0181.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X"
14NVIDIA&DEV_0182.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440SE with AGP8X"
15NVIDIA&DEV_0185.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 4000"
16NVIDIA&DEV_0188.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 580 XGL"
17NVIDIA&DEV_018A.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro NVS with AGP8X"
18NVIDIA&DEV_018B.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 380 XGL"
19NVIDIA&DEV_01F0.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU"
20NVIDIA&DEV_0200.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce3"
21NVIDIA&DEV_0201.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200"
22NVIDIA&DEV_0202.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500"
23NVIDIA&DEV_0203.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro DCC"
24NVIDIA&DEV_0250.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600"
25NVIDIA&DEV_0251.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4400"
26NVIDIA&DEV_0253.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200"
27NVIDIA&DEV_0258.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 900 XGL"
28NVIDIA&DEV_0259.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 750 XGL"
29NVIDIA&DEV_025B.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 700 XGL"
30NVIDIA&DEV_0280.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800"
31NVIDIA&DEV_0281.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X"
32NVIDIA&DEV_0282.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE"
33NVIDIA&DEV_0288.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL"
34NVIDIA&DEV_0289.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro4 780 XGL"
35NVIDIA&DEV_0301.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 Ultra"
36NVIDIA&DEV_0302.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800"
37NVIDIA&DEV_0308.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000"
38NVIDIA&DEV_0309.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000"
39NVIDIA&DEV_0311.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 Ultra"
40NVIDIA&DEV_0312.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600"
41NVIDIA&DEV_0314.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600XT"
42NVIDIA&DEV_0321.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra"
43NVIDIA&DEV_0322.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200"
44NVIDIA&DEV_0323.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200LE"
45NVIDIA&DEV_0326.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500"
46NVIDIA&DEV_0327.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5100"
47NVIDIA&DEV_032A.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro NVS 55/280 PCI"
48NVIDIA&DEV_032B.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 500/FX 600"
49NVIDIA&DEV_0330.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 Ultra"
50NVIDIA&DEV_0331.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900"
51NVIDIA&DEV_0332.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900XT"
52NVIDIA&DEV_0333.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5950 Ultra"
53NVIDIA&DEV_0334.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900ZT"
54NVIDIA&DEV_0338.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000"
55NVIDIA&DEV_033F.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 700"
56NVIDIA&DEV_0341.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra"
57NVIDIA&DEV_0342.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700"
58NVIDIA&DEV_0343.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE"
59NVIDIA&DEV_0344.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700VE"
60NVIDIA&DEV_034E.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 1100"

61NVIDIA&DEV_0040.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra"
62NVIDIA&DEV_0041.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
63NVIDIA&DEV_0042.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE"
64NVIDIA&DEV_0043.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 XE"
65NVIDIA&DEV_0045.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
66NVIDIA&DEV_0048.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 XT"
67NVIDIA&DEV_004E.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000"
68NVIDIA&DEV_0211.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
69NVIDIA&DEV_0212.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE"
70NVIDIA&DEV_0215.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
71NVIDIA&DEV_0221.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6200"
72NVIDIA&DEV_00F1.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT"
73NVIDIA&DEV_00F2.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6600"
74NVIDIA&DEV_00F3.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6200"
75NVIDIA&DEV_00F4.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE"

The Quadro fx3450 is equivalent to the pcie Geforce 6800gs. Those were released after the 7800 series was already out, and there are no pipes to unlock on it. But even so, it should perform on par with the 6800gt due to higher clock speeds.

Here's more info from my notes:

Tested the Quadro fx3450 in Windows XP, using Forceware 186.18, which has Quadro and Geforce drivers. Then uninstalled the Quadro driver, and force installed the PCIE Geforce 6800GS driver (VEN_10DE&DEV_00C0), and performance was the same, with no noticeable difference in several games I tested (Half Life 2, NFS Hot Pursuit 2, Prey, Fear, NFS Porsche, NOLF2, Bioshock).