VOGONS


Reply 20 of 48, by Gmlb256

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kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:30:
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:15:

There's a video floating around YouTube of someone running Doom 3 on a Voodoo 2 sli setup.

Heck, even LGR did it.

I have seen screenshots even before LGR did a video around this. 😉

Reply 21 of 48, by chrismeyer6

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kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:30:
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:15:

There's a video floating around YouTube of someone running Doom 3 on a Voodoo 2 sli setup.

Heck, even LGR did it.

Yes they did it more recently the video I was talking about was from when Doom 3 first came out. Back when that game came out people went crazy trying it on all kinds of weird and fun hardware. Man those were fun times.

Reply 22 of 48, by chrismeyer6

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:32:
kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:30:
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:15:

There's a video floating around YouTube of someone running Doom 3 on a Voodoo 2 sli setup.

Heck, even LGR did it.

I have seen screenshots even before LGR did a video around this. 😉

That looks like the same guy who made the video I saw on Tom's hardware back in 04/05. Playing it on the V2 SLI gave the game a Quake 2 look and feel.

Reply 23 of 48, by The Serpent Rider

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386SX wrote:

I remember it on the Radeon 8500 and 9700 and those were the type of GPU complexity the game required and needed to really look as supposed to.

Not quite. Doom 3 was designed around Dot3 bump mapping + specular maps, per pixel lightning and stencil shadows. All can be rendered on humble GeForce 4 MX, which is, ironically, just an overbuffed GeForce 256 with all its features back from 1999. So it shows how forward thinking was and is important for GPUs. All while Voodoo 5 can be compared to overbuffed Riva TNT back from 1998, with how similar they are, including supported AGP standard.

Although, you probably can compare VSA100 to PS2, which also had emphasis on heavy fillrate effects like motion blur and depth of field. So games that were ported from that console or heavily influenced during development are good target.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2022-06-01, 17:39. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 24 of 48, by 386SX

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:56:
386SX wrote:

I remember it on the Radeon 8500 and 9700 and those were the type of GPU complexity the game required and needed to really look as supposed to.

Not quite. Doom 3 was designed around Dot3 bump mapping + specular maps, per pixel lightning and stencil shadows. All can be rendered on humble GeForce 4 MX, which is, ironically, just an overbuffed GeForce 256 with all its features back from 1999. So it shows how forward thinking was and is important for GPUs. All while Voodoo 5 can be compared to overbuffed Riva TNT back from 1998, with how similar they are, including supported AGP standard.

I suppose technically the 'not that humble' Geforce4 MX gpu (still having its innovative features not to mention already in the NV10 too) specific path might appear similar to the final result on a R200 or R300 gpu rendering but at which frame rate cost. I think that these were the gpu the game pushed its features as supposed or hoped to at acceptable fps. Just the first video found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU4cbxxnL0c minute 2:10 , and indeed back in that time I remember many discussions which compared the Radeon 8500 vs the Radeon 9700 quality difference (of course also for the possible frame rate which on the 8500 might still have an impact). Of course as always thought the Geforce 256 and Geforce 2 NSR tech along the whole architecture were already great indeed but maybe not having the final speed / clocks / manufacturing size to be pushed enough to see their own features be fully used in very complex games where sooner or later those specs would have been a limit themself, hw T&L speed included.

Reply 25 of 48, by The Serpent Rider

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386SX wrote:

but at which frame rate cost

Well, you can play Doom 3 on GeForce 4 MX 460/MX440-8x with 640x480 resolution and 30 fps target, bells and whistles. Not far from Xbox Doom3 experience.

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Reply 26 of 48, by 386SX

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AppleSauce wrote on 2022-06-01, 13:08:

I mean this is just speculation , but if rampage had been actually released and soon enough and 3dfx shifted away from glide and directed its attention wholly to direct3d and opengl maybe 3dfx would have held on at least a little longer.

Of course only theories can be imagined but realistically two generations of video chips/cards basically running "in defence" of the alternative released products, probably during the most competitive period of video cards history was almost an impossible situation that even saw the end of other companies which existed much before 3dfx in the PC market.
3dfx with the Voodoo Graphic sure remained in the history of video chip/cards but maybe it should have entered that market a bit earlier to imagine that other companies would have offered similar when not finally better products for features and speed. And not much time passed only few years all considered..

Last edited by 386SX on 2022-06-01, 18:04. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 27 of 48, by kitten.may.cry

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-01, 16:56:
386SX wrote:

I remember it on the Radeon 8500 and 9700 and those were the type of GPU complexity the game required and needed to really look as supposed to.

Not quite. Doom 3 was designed around Dot3 bump mapping + specular maps, per pixel lightning and stencil shadows. All can be rendered on humble GeForce 4 MX, which is, ironically, just an overbuffed GeForce 256 with all its features back from 1999. So it shows how forward thinking was and is important for GPUs. All while Voodoo 5 can be compared to overbuffed Riva TNT back from 1998, with how similar they are, including supported AGP standard.

Although, you probably can compare VSA100 to PS2, which also had emphasis on heavy fillrate effects like motion blur and depth of field. So games that were ported from that console or heavily influenced during development are good target.

NGL, I want GeForce256 now, just to try this out.

Reply 28 of 48, by 386SX

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-01, 17:33:
386SX wrote:

but at which frame rate cost

Well, you can play Doom 3 on GeForce 4 MX 460/MX440-8x with 640x480 resolution and 30 fps target, bells and whistles. Not far from Xbox Doom3 experience.

The Geforce 4 MX 460 wasn't much common (too bad, it still looks a great card) but I suppose it can. But even the Doom3 Xbox experience I suppose was much different (beside the resolution) from the quality of even the R200 rendering it. But of course they were different generations GPUs. But imho comparing the MX 460 with the V5 5500 is also two different generations video chips themself. No matter how much the drivers or the games could be tweaked, the problem looks nowdays obvious that SLI was a shortcut to something that needed to be "really" new and that couldn't arrive anymore in such situation also when gone for the same idea with the Voodoo2 SLI time followed by the Avenger chip followed by the VSA and again the SLI..

I mean it's nice that some games like Half Life 2 had a Directx7 path and similar choices were great to fully push older tech to some limits but also had the support for the Pixel Shading 1.4 if I remember correctly. Features were already available to push developers creating games like those ones.

Reply 29 of 48, by The Serpent Rider

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386SX wrote:

I mean it's nice that some games like Half Life 2 had a Directx7 path and similar choices were great to fully push older tech to some limits

Nah, Half-Life 2 DX7 mode is very conservative and bland.

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Reply 30 of 48, by 386SX

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-01, 18:13:
386SX wrote:

I mean it's nice that some games like Half Life 2 had a Directx7 path and similar choices were great to fully push older tech to some limits

Nah, Half-Life 2 DX7 mode is very conservative and bland.

I never tried the DX7 path but I was expecting it to be quite graphically optimized even considering the not heavy new gfx effects at least of the original game engine (I read about modern engine has improved many things, I only tried the demo and felt quite heavy on my netbook iGPU but it's an Atom so nothing new).

Reply 31 of 48, by The Serpent Rider

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It looks worse than Unreal 2 on DX7 capable hardware. Total waste of time trying to run it on Voodoo 5.

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Reply 32 of 48, by chrismeyer6

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386SX wrote on 2022-06-01, 17:50:
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-01, 17:33:
386SX wrote:

but at which frame rate cost

Well, you can play Doom 3 on GeForce 4 MX 460/MX440-8x with 640x480 resolution and 30 fps target, bells and whistles. Not far from Xbox Doom3 experience.

The Geforce 4 MX 460 wasn't much common (too bad, it still looks a great card) but I suppose it can. But even the Doom3 Xbox experience I suppose was much different (beside the resolution) from the quality of even the R200 rendering it. But of course they were different generations GPUs. But imho comparing the MX 460 with the V5 5500 is also two different generations video chips themself. No matter how much the drivers or the games could be tweaked, the problem looks nowdays obvious that SLI was a shortcut to something that needed to be "really" new and that couldn't arrive anymore in such situation also when gone for the same idea with the Voodoo2 SLI time followed by the Avenger chip followed by the VSA and again the SLI..

I mean it's nice that some games like Half Life 2 had a Directx7 path and similar choices were great to fully push older tech to some limits but also had the support for the Pixel Shading 1.4 if I remember correctly. Features were already available to push developers creating games like those ones.

I have a MX-460 in a Athlon XP build and it's a great card. It's kinda like having a GeForce 2 ultra with the memory bandwidth optimizations on the full GeForce 4 cards. With a good cooler the MX-460 can overclock quite well.

Reply 33 of 48, by Dolenc

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Most advanced prob ut2004 like others mentioned.

Prettiest def giants, this game is just amazing on any hardware.

There are some acreenshots online of Halo running on v5, tried today, doesnt work for me. Maybe with sfft d3d core, thats a bit more advanced, than whats avaliable on win98.

Wow also runs or it used too.

Reply 34 of 48, by 386SX

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chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-06-01, 19:13:
386SX wrote on 2022-06-01, 17:50:
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-01, 17:33:

Well, you can play Doom 3 on GeForce 4 MX 460/MX440-8x with 640x480 resolution and 30 fps target, bells and whistles. Not far from Xbox Doom3 experience.

The Geforce 4 MX 460 wasn't much common (too bad, it still looks a great card) but I suppose it can. But even the Doom3 Xbox experience I suppose was much different (beside the resolution) from the quality of even the R200 rendering it. But of course they were different generations GPUs. But imho comparing the MX 460 with the V5 5500 is also two different generations video chips themself. No matter how much the drivers or the games could be tweaked, the problem looks nowdays obvious that SLI was a shortcut to something that needed to be "really" new and that couldn't arrive anymore in such situation also when gone for the same idea with the Voodoo2 SLI time followed by the Avenger chip followed by the VSA and again the SLI..

I mean it's nice that some games like Half Life 2 had a Directx7 path and similar choices were great to fully push older tech to some limits but also had the support for the Pixel Shading 1.4 if I remember correctly. Features were already available to push developers creating games like those ones.

I have a MX-460 in a Athlon XP build and it's a great card. It's kinda like having a GeForce 2 ultra with the memory bandwidth optimizations on the full GeForce 4 cards. With a good cooler the MX-460 can overclock quite well.

It is one of those video cards I often said one day or another I might look for to test. I suppose more available than a Geforce2 Ultra that was rare and expensive in its days too.

Reply 35 of 48, by chrismeyer6

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386SX wrote on 2022-06-02, 07:34:
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-06-01, 19:13:
386SX wrote on 2022-06-01, 17:50:

The Geforce 4 MX 460 wasn't much common (too bad, it still looks a great card) but I suppose it can. But even the Doom3 Xbox experience I suppose was much different (beside the resolution) from the quality of even the R200 rendering it. But of course they were different generations GPUs. But imho comparing the MX 460 with the V5 5500 is also two different generations video chips themself. No matter how much the drivers or the games could be tweaked, the problem looks nowdays obvious that SLI was a shortcut to something that needed to be "really" new and that couldn't arrive anymore in such situation also when gone for the same idea with the Voodoo2 SLI time followed by the Avenger chip followed by the VSA and again the SLI..

I mean it's nice that some games like Half Life 2 had a Directx7 path and similar choices were great to fully push older tech to some limits but also had the support for the Pixel Shading 1.4 if I remember correctly. Features were already available to push developers creating games like those ones.

I have a MX-460 in a Athlon XP build and it's a great card. It's kinda like having a GeForce 2 ultra with the memory bandwidth optimizations on the full GeForce 4 cards. With a good cooler the MX-460 can overclock quite well.

It is one of those video cards I often said one day or another I might look for to test. I suppose more available than a Geforce2 Ultra that was rare and expensive in its days too.

I got mine for 20 bucks including shipping on eBay back in 2018. Honestly it plays any of the games me or my son play on that system beautifully and usually at maxed settings at 1024x768.

Reply 36 of 48, by The Serpent Rider

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Halo CE also looks very bland on hardware without DX8 shaders, because Gearbox porting job was mediocre. But Voodoo 5 is even worse.

Enclave looks nice. Impressive sometimes. And considering low frame rate on Voodoo 5 6000, that's as far as you can get.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2022-06-02, 19:10. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 38 of 48, by Rikintosh

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songo wrote on 2021-01-14, 18:09:
'Ugly but with playable framerate' - and that's how Doom 3 runs on V5 AGP on youtube clip. […]
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kolderman wrote on 2021-01-14, 18:03:

Define "run". You probably don't want to play Doom 3 on a voodoo 5.

'Ugly but with playable framerate' - and that's how Doom 3 runs on V5 AGP on youtube clip.

Also check HL2 - it runs much better than Xbox port (and og. Xbox has GeForce 3).

I'm sure we can go further than those games.

I think some games get ugly, not because of lack of performance, but because of problems with the drivers. This card performs well in benchmarks.

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