VOGONS


First post, by ThisOldTech

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So.... I got a cool 25lb box of random ISA/PCI cards from the 80s-90s from someone in Georgia who was getting rid of them all.

In there was a plethora of cool stuff but one that stuck out for me was the Artist Graphics 2000i PCI.
Never seen a card with 72pin ram modules before.

A quick google netted me nothing all that interesting... but left me wondering more.
I still had SO many questions...

  • Is it really a 3D accelerator?
  • How did they compare to others like them of the era?
  • What was it like to use one?
  • Why is there no reviews, details or anything about 3GA based cards online?

It sent me down a rabbit hole I never knew would cost me hours of my life I'll ever get back.

  • I learned the creator went to jail for tax evasion.
  • I discovered a historic exchange between Artist Graphics and Electronic Arts that led to the 3GA getting Argonaut BRender, Criterion Software RenderWare, Rendermorphics Reality Lab, Intel 3DR, OpenGL and more.
  • I found the manual, different versions of the drivers and even early magazine ads and interviews with the company and the history behind why the company started creating graphics cards in the first place.
  • I even found a japanese website that listed a ton of Aritst Graphics cards you don't find anywhere else. There were 20+ of them!

    Ive created a history video on this, Just because it's so fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmKKyiTCWNc


    So, it's come time to start playing with this sucker.
    I tried 3 different early socket 5/7 setups but I kept having issues.

    Finally got a period-accurate Compaq Deskpro 2000 (Vetz would be proud eh?) w/Pentium 120, 64mb ram and a 512mb CompactFlash going.
    Got a fresh load of W95 installed and got the drivers loaded.

    One driver listed on Vogons blue-screened the machine... It's listed as:
    Artist Graphics 2000i Display Drivers & Utilities for Windows™ v1.23 -- But this is clearly the Windows 3.11 driver.
    Ironically it does appear to load fine until you switch resolutions and then the OS hangs/Bluescreen.

    The Windows 95 Driver on Vogons doesn't actually contain an INF the card recognized and I tried the manual load methods.
    I was able to use the NetVision driver for W95 and it worked beautifully!

    After I got all setup... fought the Compaq proprietary disk-based BIOS, the riser issues and other strange atrocities of vintage Compaq fun...
    Oh boy was I in for a treat!

    I worked in computer stores in 96'-98' and ran my own from 99-01 so I've seen countless driver installs.
    Many basic cards don't come with much for settings - some none other than what W9x offers you natively.

    This one has it's own branded tab in Display settings. It has greyscale adjustments, the full company info, VRAM recognized, mild overclocking and more.
    It also came with some utilities but they mostly just zoom and magnify things.

    I've been testing it's function in the natively supported acceleration types and I gotta say FOR THE PERIOD -- it's pretty impressive.
    Given the fact that the chip itself was originally devised/tested in 1992 (as mentioned in PC World 1992) if they had gotten it to market early enough not much would have competed with it! Sadly since it took till 95-96 by then we were seeing the NV1, Voodoo, and others.

    Still I'm having a lot of fun learning about this and I've probably gone a wee bit too far.
    I even reached out to Robert Beale but he hasn't gotten back to me. Be fun to find out if they had any other plans for 3D accelerators before the tax man got him.

    I'm on the lookout for any OpenGL or other 3D testing software that works in DOS or W95 if you know of any.

    **Update**
    I did a follow up video showing the use of the card but it's been pointed out that it likely didn't fully 3D accelerate. I've read thru the code of all the drivers I could find (4 versions of them) and only the NT drivers mention some acceleration direct to hardware that I could tell. That's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xONCBNipb8k

    Robert Beale of Artist Graphics got back to me!!
    I would paste it exactly as sent but since I didn't ask for that sort of permission I feel that could be an invasion of trust... but the gyst of his reply was this:

    * The cost of production held them back. It was costing up to $500 per board to produce.
    * The chip company tried to work with them to $100 but the engineers in the USA were too slow to get on that before the money ran out
    * He regrets not working with silicon valley investors to support upgrades/speed
    * The team didn't invest in tools fast enough... but were aiming for 10x the chip density
    * The founder of Nvidia was also located in Minnesota and he'd hired one of their engineers
    * He was in talks with Steve Jobs/NeXT and realized much later that Jobs WOULD have likely worked with him if he had asked.

    This part seems harmless enough to share:
    The idea for the 3GA chip was everyone's idea of the next level of graphics and Theo was interested in creating 3D video games. Number Nine Company came out with a 3D product a little after we did. Theo went on to create the first 3D games, such as WAR IN HEAVEN. ~ Bob Beale
Last edited by ThisOldTech on 2021-05-27, 20:04. Edited 2 times in total.

I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 1 of 31, by Error 0x7CF

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ThisOldTech wrote on 2021-05-14, 00:06:

I'm on the lookout for any OpenGL or other 3D testing software that works in DOS or W95 if you know of any.

GLQuake? 😜

Real answer: I guess you're looking for an OpenGL capabilities viewer? I poked around a bit but couldn't find one that works for 9x. GLQuake would be a very rough way to find out what your GPU does and doesn't support.

Old precedes antique.

Reply 2 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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Thought you were serious... TBH I thought Quake 1 was OpenGL based.
I thought I'd give that one a go anyway since it says it supports Windows 95

I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 3 of 31, by vlask

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1)Image of card would be nice....
2)Glquake should work
3)Aida 64 or older version named everest should work too (at last in win98 they are). They can show opengl info.
4)You can try GPUbench too, usefull for cards without texture capabilities.... http://swarm.cz/gpubench/
5)If youre into more fancy 3dmark like benchmark, then you can try GLexcess, works for me in W98 too... http://www.glexcess.com/files.htm

Not only mine graphics cards collection at http://www.vgamuseum.info

Reply 5 of 31, by soggi

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vlask wrote on 2021-05-15, 13:23:

1)Image of card would be nice....

The card may look like the attached one which was taken from the Specification PDF from ARTIST Graphics website.

kind regards
soggi

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Vintage BIOSes, firmware, drivers, tools, manuals and (3dfx) game patches -> soggi's BIOS & Firmware Page

soggi.org on Twitter - talent borrows, genius steals...

Reply 6 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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Here’s some pictures of the card.
Still working on getting the recording setup but I’ll try the above mentioned and report back when I get to that step.

The NetVision driver does appear to support OpenGL on W95 as other OpenGL software haven’t reported errors so we’ll see.

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I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 7 of 31, by Putas

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ThisOldTech wrote on 2021-05-16, 04:29:

The NetVision driver does appear to support OpenGL on W95 as other OpenGL software haven’t reported errors so we’ll see.

Which driver are you using and what software is it?

Reply 8 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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Putas wrote on 2021-05-16, 06:06:

Which driver are you using and what software is it?

This driver is the only one I managed to get working in w95:
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1 … 3&menustate=5,1

This one listed as the w95 driver doesn't contain what Windows needs to use it properly:
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=4 … 3&menustate=5,1

I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 10 of 31, by vlask

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Looks like archived web have also some drivers to download....
https://web.archive.org/web/19990203053505/ht … s/drivers/2000/

Not only mine graphics cards collection at http://www.vgamuseum.info

Reply 11 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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@Putras

How do you know which drivers have 3D Accel and which don't?
Sigh do I really have to load NT to see this thing perform?

It's not a BIG deal but I really don't know what it would support.. would I need 4.0 or 3.5 (which is basically win 3.11 I guess)

I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 12 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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I’m committed to finding the answers I seek!

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I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 13 of 31, by Aebtdom

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ThisOldTech wrote on 2021-05-16, 04:29:

Here’s some pictures of the card.
Still working on getting the recording setup but I’ll try the above mentioned and report back when I get to that step.

The NetVision driver does appear to support OpenGL on W95 as other OpenGL software haven’t reported errors so we’ll see.

When I look at the second picture, it seems like there is a pin (almost) touching another on the chip. Near the U1 on the graphics board.
Please be careful with this.

Builds:

Xp3000+ gf3 ti200 + vd2 SLI 12MB + 768MB + SB live @ WinXP & 98 Dualboot.

P2 350mhz + Diamond Viper V550 + 3Dfx Voodoo 2 12MB + AWE64 + 128MB SDR @ msdos / win98.

Reply 14 of 31, by Putas

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I simply look at libraries. Going through latest NT drivers there isn't anything either. Could the OpenGL driver ship with the system?

I am afraid they might have bailed on 3d, looking at their web around 1996/97 they marketed Netvision as a "document viewer".

Reply 15 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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Putas wrote on 2021-05-18, 07:17:

I simply look at libraries. Going through latest NT drivers there isn't anything either. Could the OpenGL driver ship with the system?

I do know the screensavers in W95 and WNT were OpenGL based animation. I know it can run via software if the hardware doesn't support it... but that part is clearly faster on wNT than W95 in my early testing.
The other thing I discovered is a little utility that tells you your graphics card's OpenGL capabilities and the utility clearly states it has some where as it didn't with my S3 Trio.

Hmm... running a few utilities it doesn't appear that anything more than software based OpenGL is happening here in WinNT with the 1996 driver from Aritist Graphics' now defunct website.

I do know that it also supports APIs like BRender and RenderWare etc... so maybe I'll try those and also the VESA 2.0 Bios utility and see what kind of results I get with those.
Perhaps my mission to document this thing in native 3D isn't as easily done as I thought it would be.

I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 16 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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Aebtdom wrote on 2021-05-18, 07:01:

When I look at the second picture, it seems like there is a pin (almost) touching another on the chip. Near the U1 on the graphics board.
Please be careful with this.

Wow good catch I didn't see that either. I'll have to go make some room between those legs.
Does seem to be working though... so they may not actually be touching... but they're close enough to cause interference and that's not good news.

Not sure how you caught that!

Here's some pics for posterity and fun:

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I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 17 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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It does appear that I’ve got hardware acceleration in DirectX within W95

I’ve shot video of it’s clean and speedy 3D I’ve pulled off.

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I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy

Reply 19 of 31, by ThisOldTech

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Error 0x7CF wrote on 2021-05-19, 23:11:

What does dxdiag say?

For the version of DirectX I have in this edition of W95 w/USB support, that utility wasn't included... I'd have to update DirectX to get that.
I may do that yet.

I rescue old PCs and keep them from being recycled... and preserve Dos/Win 3.11 Software on https://www.ThisOldTech.ca.
Current Machine: AST Advantage! Adventure 6066d Cyrix DX50, 32M, 500MB, Vibra16 + CD/Floppy