VOGONS


What is a 3D accelerator?

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First post, by koleq

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How to find a 3D accelerator that is not a Voodoo?
Are there PCI or ISA Graphics cards I could put into my PC?
I have no idea what am I looking for but I would like to be able to start a game like KAO the Kangaroo,
But the game tells me I do not have a 3D Accelerator.
Is an ATI Mach64 a 3D accelerator?

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 2 of 92, by koleq

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That is not very many cards, I guess I will only be playing non 3D accelerated games.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 3 of 92, by mwdmeyer

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Honestly every 3d pci accelerator is expensive now other than the ATI Rage XL 8MB/8 MB PCI (which I doubt will work in your Pentium 1).

Best options are Voodoo 1/2/3/Banshee or if you can find TNT 1/2/Geforce PCI

Maybe even Matrox G200 PCI or something.

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Reply 4 of 92, by darry

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Trying to be informative yet succinct :

How to find a 3D accelerator that is not a Voodoo?

For the last 25 odd years 3D accelerators have been informally referred to by the main chip (manufacturer and model) used on them (i.e. 3Dfx Voodoo 2 , ATI Rage128 , Nvidia Geforce 2 GTS) or more formally by the manufacturer and model name/number of a given 3D accelerator card that uses a given chip . Not all cards using a given chip are made equal (performance can vary due to main chip or video RAM clock speed, memory architecture, quantity or type used ). Looking for a card based on a given chip is usually a starting point .

Are there PCI or ISA Graphics cards I could put into my PC?

Excluding rare and specialized exceptions, 3D accelerator cards have existed with PCI, AGP (of which there are several non fully compatible variants), VLB (very rare, only one "mainstream" model exists AFAIK and is of limited interest except to collectors) and more recently PCI Express interfaces . Your computer must support the interface the card uses and compatible chip/card-specific drivers for your operating system of choice must exist for a given 3D accelerator card to be of any practical use .

I have no idea what am I looking for but I would like to be able to start a game like KAO the Kangaroo,
But the game tells me I do not have a 3D Accelerator.

The game's requirements are here : https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kao-th … ngaroo/techinfo

Basically you need a 3D accelerator that supports the DirectX Direct3D API version 7.0 on a hardware level and has at least 32MB of video RAM . Direct3D is theoretically backward compatible (i.e. a Direct3D 8.0 or 9.0 capable 3D accelerator will generally work with software designed for version 7.0 , for example), but a 3D accelerator that is much newer than what software was designed for may experience issues. This varies on a case by case basis and is usually more problematic for very old games ( designed for DirectX Direct3D 5.0/6.0 or older) as certain features are either deprecated or simply implemented differently in much newer hardware .

Is an ATI Mach64 a 3D accelerator?

No . It does not support any 3D acceleration API (neither Direct3D, nor openGL , nor Glide , nor any other more obscure 3D API) .

To gain a basic understanding of 3D acceleration (in a historical context), I suggest reading the dated FAQ (form 1996) linked below . From there, it should be much easier for you to gain a grasp of current 3D acceleration tech as you will already know the basics and historical context .

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/3dgr … cs-cards/part1/
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/3dgr … cs-cards/part2/

I hope this helps.

Reply 6 of 92, by koleq

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Guys OMG I am freaking out I found a Voodoo 2 for 150 czk!

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 8 of 92, by koleq

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-04-05, 06:39:

your 3070 will be fine for this game, install DxWnd, download Kao the Kangaroo v1.0 [ENGLISH] No-CD/Fixed EXE and have fun

I do not want to play it on my main rig.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 9 of 92, by koleq

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-05, 06:41:

Guys OMG I am freaking out I found a Voodoo 2 for 150 czk!

of course it's already sold ;-;

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 10 of 92, by Putas

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darry wrote on 2022-04-05, 06:30:

TBasically you need a 3D accelerator that supports the DirectX Direct3D API version 7.0 on a hardware level and has at least 32MB of video RAM .

Just because a game is written for Direct3D 7 does not mean your video card has to be fully compliant with the API. Compatible driver can be enough.

koleq wrote on 2022-04-05, 05:45:

Is an ATI Mach64 a 3D accelerator?

No, unless it is Mach64 GT.

Reply 11 of 92, by rasz_pl

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-05, 06:59:
rasz_pl wrote on 2022-04-05, 06:39:

your 3070 will be fine for this game, install DxWnd, download Kao the Kangaroo v1.0 [ENGLISH] No-CD/Fixed EXE and have fun

I do not want to play it on my main rig.

Then you need to build another computer. This is a 3D game from year 2000.

Reply 12 of 92, by koleq

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Would an ATI Rage XL PCI be able to start Kao the kangaroo? or Tomb Raider 4?

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 13 of 92, by leileilol

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Maybe. The CPU will still be too slow though, and Rage XL's part of the earlier Rage Pro family that are notorious for having trouble with alpha blends, so the driver does that by software (slow!).

Know that the early days of 3d acceleration were ALL quirky and had various limitations (especially regarding polygons and blending). If you're not too sure, then stick with late98/mid99 hardware at the earliest to be 'safe'. (Banshee/Voodoo3, TNT/TNT2, Rage128, G400 etc)

for a P133 though, a more appropriate game would be Quake, Descent 2, Nascar Racing, Jedi Knight, ATF, Tyrian, Red Alert, Dungeon Keeper, Fallout, Leo the Lion (hopping off animal-themed polish platformers here), etc. Giving it 2000 stuff will be a test of pain and patience as Pentium III's were heavily marketed to the mainstream by that point in the range of 600-866mhz... Moore's law was a monster then.

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Reply 14 of 92, by LightStruk

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You've gotten lots of great responses so far. In the interest of keeping this simple, if you just want a 3D accelerator that plays some great vintage games, here's all you need to know.

Kao the Kangaroo is a Windows game, using Direct 3D. Your best, most compatible, and least hassle option is an Nvidia card. If your vintage PC has an AGP slot, get a Geforce FX 5500 or 5600 AGP. They're relatively cheap on the used market, fast for games from that era, with stable drivers that work great on both Windows 9x and Windows 2000/XP.

If your vintage PC has PCI slots but no AGP slots, then get a Geforce FX 5200 PCI. Make sure you're NOT getting the AGP version, which some sellers aren't careful about labeling correctly. That's the very best PCI 3d accelerator, and it actually costs less than many other PCI options.

What you should not do is buy a Voodoo card. The only reason to get a 3dfx card is to spend too much money, or to play specific DOS games that require one. The Geforce FX 5x00 line is faster than any PCI Voodoo card in any Windows game, with better graphics and more features.

Reply 15 of 92, by koleq

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I actually remembered that I do have another PC:

CPU: AMD Sempron 1.8Ghz
RAM: 512 MB (I keep 512 so I don't have to bother with Windows 98 RAM limit)
GPU: Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128 MB

and I usually had Windows 98 SE on it,

But I still kept looking for an older PC, like the Pentium 1 I got to play MS-DOS games and now that I got it, I wanted to play Windows 98 games on it...

I see my mistakes now; I should play DOS games on the Pentium machine and Windows 9x games on the AMD Sempron.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 16 of 92, by Errius

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In 2000 I had a computer with Pentium II, 128 MB RAM, and Matrox Millennium G200 running Windows 98 SE. I imagine that was pretty typical for the time.

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Reply 17 of 92, by Gmlb256

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LightStruk wrote on 2022-04-05, 14:07:

If your vintage PC has PCI slots but no AGP slots, then get a Geforce FX 5200 PCI. Make sure you're NOT getting the AGP version, which some sellers aren't careful about labeling correctly. That's the very best PCI 3d accelerator, and it actually costs less than many other PCI options.

What you should not do is buy a Voodoo card. The only reason to get a 3dfx card is to spend too much money, or to play specific DOS games that require one. The Geforce FX 5x00 line is faster than any PCI Voodoo card in any Windows game, with better graphics and more features.

The GeForce FX 5200 is better used on faster computers such as the AMD Sempron which the OP mentioned later due to CPU overhead with the drivers that supports said card. The best alternative (other than 3Dfx cards which are the ideal ones) would be actually getting the nVidia RIVA TNT2 PCI or maybe an early GeForce card (current prices set aside of course) because it allows to use older nVidia drivers which are more suitable for the Pentium classic.

koleq wrote on 2022-04-05, 14:22:

But I still kept looking for an older PC, like the Pentium 1 I got to play MS-DOS games and now that I got it, I wanted to play Windows 98 games on it...

I see my mistakes now; I should play DOS games on the Pentium machine and Windows 9x games on the AMD Sempron.

Not a mistake at all. The Pentium classic is still useful for early Windows 9x games up to 1998 but don't expect smooth 60 FPS with 3D games on it because it wasn't achievable at the time regardless of any 3D accelerator.

BTW, not every Windows games are necessarily 3D accelerated. 😉

Reply 18 of 92, by koleq

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-05, 15:04:

Not a mistake at all. The Pentium classic is still useful for early Windows 9x games up to 1998 but don't expect smooth 60 FPS with 3D games on it because it wasn't achievable at the time regardless of any 3D accelerator.

BTW, not every Windows games are necessarily 3D accelerated. 😉

Well yeah, the plan is still to try some Windows 9x games that don't need an accelerator, and I am expecting low FPS it's kinda the charm I am looking for.
May sound a bit weird but I am a bit tired of games running so well on my RTX 3070, I'm looking for that Pentium 1 experience.
And I bet the S3 Trio64 is still capable of some fun games!
I may get a 3D accelerator later but for now I can run those games on my AMD Sempron system.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 19 of 92, by AirIntake

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mwdmeyer wrote on 2022-04-05, 06:06:

Honestly every 3d pci accelerator is expensive now other than the ATI Rage XL 8MB/8 MB PCI (which I doubt will work in your Pentium 1).

It would require a 3.3V mod using a regulator or diodes, but it will work. I'm running one right now in my Pentium 166.

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