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What is a 3D accelerator?

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Reply 41 of 92, by The Serpent Rider

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do they? For Virge break even was around 120-133MHz, at that point playing 320x200 software rendering was faster than "accelerated" mode on Virge.

Virge is 2x-3x faster than software rendering on Pentium MMX 200 Mhz with equal settings.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-04-07, 22:36. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 42 of 92, by Joseph_Joestar

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-04-07, 08:00:

do they? For Virge break even was around 120-133MHz, at that point playing 320x200 software rendering was faster than "accelerated" mode on Virge.

On my Pentium MMX 166 system, the S3 Virge DX was roughly 15% faster than software rendering in the original Tomb Raider running at 640x480 under DOS 6.22. In 320x200 the difference was even larger.

Additionally, using the Virge gets you 16-bit colors, bilinear filtering and perspective correction. None of these are available in software rendering. The difference in visuals is quite noticeable.

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Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-04-07, 22:36. Edited 1 time in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 43 of 92, by koleq

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ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk
ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk
Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk
S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk

Out of these 3D accelerators which one would you guys recommend?

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 44 of 92, by Meatball

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S3 Virge DX

If you have any issues with black levels , which I did, use this thread to resolve:

Re: S3 AGP Cards (and possibly others) Too Bright

2080Ti
TitanXp/980Ti/260/7950GT-GX2/6800U/6200/5950U/4200/GF3-2/TNT1-2
3dfx 58-55-49-45-35-3-2K/100/2/Fusion/Rush/1/X-24/200SBi/100DB
ATI 75-7200/Rage MAXX-Fury-Ultra-GL-Pro-XL-LT
G400MAX-200/M220/Trio3D/VirgeGX2/DX
Verite V2100/PCX2-1
GLoria Synergy/I/II

Reply 45 of 92, by The Serpent Rider

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ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk […]
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ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk
ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk
Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk
S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk

G450.

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Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 46 of 92, by Con 2 botones

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-07, 12:02:
ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk […]
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ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk
ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk
Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk
S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk

Out of these 3D accelerators which one would you guys recommend?

Matrox Millenium G450 32MB is the most powerful of them (much newer), sure.
But...I would pick the 4MB Virge DX.
One one hand because I prefer more period correct builds, on the other, I am not sure that Pentium 133mhz will benefit from the G450 extra performance.

Are you sure you can´t find a PCI Ati 3D Rage Pro, nVidia Riva 128, or TNT2 m64 for a reasonable price?

Reply 47 of 92, by koleq

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Con 2 botones wrote on 2022-04-07, 12:42:

Are you sure you can´t find a PCI Ati 3D Rage Pro, nVidia Riva 128, or TNT2 m64 for a reasonable price?

yeah, all of those are much more expensive or just not on the local market here.
When a PCI version of any of those shows up, it quicky goes over $70

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 48 of 92, by The Serpent Rider

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Ah, there migh be some problems with G450 on old motherboards, since it's Pentium 133. But buying Virge DX for 3D acceleration is pointless.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 49 of 92, by Gmlb256

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-07, 12:02:
ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk […]
Show full quote

ATI 3D Rage II 4MB - 500czk
ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD 4MB - 300czk
Matrox Millenium G450 32MB - 500czk
S3 Virge/dx 4MB - 440czk

Out of these 3D accelerators which one would you guys recommend?

Of those 4 I would say the S3 ViRGE/DX since you want good DOS compatibility on that computer. The 2D performance is bit faster than the S3 Trio64 however the 3D features and performance aren't on par with 3Dfx, nVidia, ATi/AMD and Matrox.

Make sure that it is from a good manufacturer as the image quality can vary (including the mentioned brightness bug) and no-name ones are abundant.

Reply 50 of 92, by Putas

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-04-07, 13:28:

Ah, there migh be some problems with G450 on old motherboards, since it's Pentium 133. But buying Virge DX for 3D acceleration is pointless.

Unless you want to explore the S3D library.

Reply 51 of 92, by LightStruk

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-04-07, 08:00:

do they? For Virge break even was around 120-133MHz, at that point playing 320x200 software rendering was faster than "accelerated" mode on Virge.

Speaking from experience, I had a Virge/VX (not the fastest Virge, I know) on a Pentium 200 MMX, and not only was it always slower than software rendering when that was available, the output was just weirdly ugly. Sure, it supported 15 bit and 16 bit 3D rendering, but with this weird dithering that looked like halftone newspaper coloring, an effect I remember especially well in accelerated Descent 2. I also tried using it in Hyperblade, one of the very earliest Direct3D games, and it was choppy enough that it made the game just plain unpleasant.

If you've never played Hyperblade by the way, why not? It's hockey in a bowl where you chop your opponents' heads off with your razor sharp blade arms. What's not to like? (The in-game explanation was that even decapitation was no longer fatal in the future, thanks to medical advancements.)

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-04-07, 22:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 52 of 92, by Cuttoon

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-07, 12:57:
Con 2 botones wrote on 2022-04-07, 12:42:

Are you sure you can´t find a PCI Ati 3D Rage Pro, nVidia Riva 128, or TNT2 m64 for a reasonable price?

yeah, all of those are much more expensive or just not on the local market here.
When a PCI version of any of those shows up, it quicky goes over $70

Everything has turned quite expensive in the last years. Either it's a generational problem of a certain cohort hitting their midlife crisis, or the Covid crisis or both.
Can't really be helped much.
But essentially, many "later" PCI models are a bit more expensive for this exact situation: Pre-AGP and non-Voodoo accelerators were rather weak and many owners of such systems look for them.
If you want affordable and win 9x, something later might be ok, like a simple AMD Socket A or Intel Socket 370 system. With AGP and just about any random card of that time.
I did not realize it until few years ago, because they still were all but thrown at you in 2012, but "plain pentium" is already very much an aficionado machine, sorry 🙁

But there are some tricks to it, if you're on a budget. Maybe you should tell what your local market is, someone might have a hint for you.

The main thing is, at places like ebay or mere ads by people who know their stuff: If the title says "somewhat interesting chip xy" then it's going to command a higher price than "some old VGA card, sticker says abc blabla on it".
So, you'd have to browse those and check the pictures.

I like jumpers.

Reply 53 of 92, by koleq

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My local market is Czech Republic, and at this point I kinda want to snag any Virge/3D rage just something to play around with.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 55 of 92, by Cuttoon

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-07, 19:20:

My local market is Czech Republic, and at this point I kinda want to snag any Virge/3D rage just something to play around with.

Oh right, yep, you mentioned Koruna at some point.
Well, some mate from Turkey here explained that there's a bit of a drought of a certain era of vintage gear because simply not that many people had computers in Turkey back then.
But, no offense to Turkey, I'd assume that the Czech Republic was pretty much up to date in 1997. Although all we did on our school trip back then was getting stupid drunk in Prague, tbh 😉
(And it was glorious.)

Maybe by now, you're simply competing with all the crazy hoarders in Germany and on Euro prices... shipping costs to Germany are low enough for it to be a common market - I just bought a S7 board from Hungary.
Well, sorry, such are the times. Drop me a line if you come to Berlin these days, I'll give you some old VirgeDX for a budweiser on tap. Just give me some advanced notice to fish it from the heap 😉

I like jumpers.

Reply 56 of 92, by koleq

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Babasha wrote on 2022-04-07, 20:01:

Kao are the game-series from 2000-2005 and req’s much faster PC and 3D accelerator then P1-133 and S3 Virge.

I figured that Kao is very much out of the picture.
How about Resident Evil 1?
Will that just work on my S3 Trio64 2MB or do I want the Virge?

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 57 of 92, by Babasha

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koleq wrote on 2022-04-07, 20:32:
I figured that Kao is very much out of the picture. How about Resident Evil 1? Will that just work on my S3 Trio64 2MB or do I w […]
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Babasha wrote on 2022-04-07, 20:01:

Kao are the game-series from 2000-2005 and req’s much faster PC and 3D accelerator then P1-133 and S3 Virge.

I figured that Kao is very much out of the picture.
How about Resident Evil 1?
Will that just work on my S3 Trio64 2MB or do I want the Virge?

Just begin to google for system req’s of your favorite games 😉

https://gamerinfo.net/game/resident-evil/

PC System requirements
CPU Intel Pentium 90
graphics card with 4 MB RAM and support of 3D
4х speed CD-ROM drive
16-bit sound card

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware! 😉

Reply 58 of 92, by leileilol

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LightStruk wrote on 2022-04-07, 16:13:

Speaking from experience, I had a Virge/VX (not the fastest Virge, I know) on a Pentium 200 MMX, and not only was it always slower than software rendering when that was available, the output was just weirdly ugly.

IIRC VX's got a different ramdac than the other virges

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long live PCem

Reply 59 of 92, by Gmlb256

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leileilol wrote on 2022-04-07, 22:38:

IIRC VX's got a different ramdac than the other virges

And it is the successor of the S3 Vision 968 to boot, a 2D card geared towards professional stuff.

Besides, ViRGE/DX, /GX and /GX2 also has better RAMDAC (170 MHz) than the original ViRGE except the /VX variant (220 MHz).