VOGONS


First post, by Aebtdom

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I have tested and retested my Geforce 3 Ti 200 several times.
But is it normal that these cards overclock so easily and remain stable?
Or am I just lucky with this card?

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Builds:

Xp3000+ gf3 ti200 + vd2 SLI 12MB + 768MB + SB live @ WinXP & 98 Dualboot.

P2 350mhz + Diamond Viper V550 + 3Dfx Voodoo 2 12MB + AWE64 + 128MB SDR @ msdos / win98.

Reply 1 of 19, by Aebtdom

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Also did a Q3A test on demo002.
Tested at 1024x768 32bit max settings.
The results are with an Athlon XP2400+
And I Included an extra GPU die picture.

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    250/250(500) clock
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Builds:

Xp3000+ gf3 ti200 + vd2 SLI 12MB + 768MB + SB live @ WinXP & 98 Dualboot.

P2 350mhz + Diamond Viper V550 + 3Dfx Voodoo 2 12MB + AWE64 + 128MB SDR @ msdos / win98.

Reply 2 of 19, by bloodem

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Yes, based on my experience, higher quality GeForce 3 Ti 200 cards overclock like crazy (and that Chaintek card is very solid).
Some were manufactured later in the production cycle and came with 4ns memory, so getting to the Ti 500 memory clock speed is pretty straightforward (sometimes you need to tweak the timings a bit).
As for the GPU itself, yeah, many are very overclockable and able to reach Ti 500 clocks.

Make sure to also run a VRAM test (with the video memory test tool).
Depending on the game and the specific memory usage, you might only see artifacts in certain circumstances (and sometimes you need to look very carefully to actually see them, because there are just a few rare 1 -2 pixel glitches here and there). So this is where the video memory test tool will help, it should catch even the tiniest of problems.

Once you're sure that everything is fine, you can flash your card to Ti 500 speeds.
Watch the cooling, though. The memory should be fine, since it has those heatsinks, however the GPU might get a bit too hot. I prefer to keep all my cards at a temperature below 60C (as measured on the back of the PCB, behind the GPU).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 3 of 19, by The Serpent Rider

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Ti 200 cards work on lowered voltage and usually can be overclocked up to 220-240 Mhz.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 4 of 19, by Cuttoon

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That is a fancy card. Like many Ti-200s. I must have the shittiest one there is - no RAM heatsinks or anything. (Asus 8200)
And the original cooler was so basic and noisy that when it passed on to our parent's PC / LAN standby, I replaced it by a random, passive Socket 7 heatsink.
It lived happily ever after in a really shitty, ill-ventilated tower case.
(Until we all became eco-conscious and I replaced it with a Matrox G450 to save power.)

So, I could still test it for OC potential, but based on that test through several years and LAN parties, I'd say the factory defaults are up to interpretation.

I like jumpers.

Reply 5 of 19, by Aebtdom

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bloodem wrote on 2022-04-15, 11:51:

Yes, based on my experience, higher quality GeForce 3 Ti 200 cards overclock like crazy (and that Chaintek card is very solid).
Some were manufactured later in the production cycle and came with 4ns memory, so getting to the Ti 500 memory clock speed is pretty straightforward (sometimes you need to tweak the timings a bit).

Where can I tweak the memory timings?
I used rivatuner for the overclocking. Is it possible to tweak it in this tool? If so, how and where?

I found it darn impressive though, the overclock room these cards have. I now run it at standard GF3 Ti settings. 200/230mhz just to be on the safe side.

Builds:

Xp3000+ gf3 ti200 + vd2 SLI 12MB + 768MB + SB live @ WinXP & 98 Dualboot.

P2 350mhz + Diamond Viper V550 + 3Dfx Voodoo 2 12MB + AWE64 + 128MB SDR @ msdos / win98.

Reply 6 of 19, by bloodem

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Aebtdom wrote on 2022-04-15, 14:20:

Where can I tweak the memory timings?
I used rivatuner for the overclocking. Is it possible to tweak it in this tool? If so, how and where?

Don't think it's possible with RivaTuner or other such tools.
It is doable, though, with an nVidia GeForce Bios editor.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 7 of 19, by Grem Five

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From this article https://www.anandtech.com/show/873/24 seems like you got dang good results.

I remember the early geforce models normally got a better boost from memory clock then core clocks. I dont know anything about tweaking the memory timing but you can mod the voltage for the memory.

Reply 9 of 19, by Aebtdom

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Grem Five wrote on 2022-04-15, 21:38:

From this article https://www.anandtech.com/show/873/24 seems like you got dang good results.

I remember the early geforce models normally got a better boost from memory clock then core clocks. I dont know anything about tweaking the memory timing but you can mod the voltage for the memory.

Hmmm, it really seems to be.
Maximum I have got a stable test result from is 260/265(530) on the card.
Above this, with higher core clocks, the card starts to freeze and higher memory the cards starts to show artifacts.
I Have decided to keep te card running at 230/240 to keep some headroom.
The backside of the core remains during gaming around an acceptable 48 degrees Celcius.

Guess I am lucky with this beauty.

Builds:

Xp3000+ gf3 ti200 + vd2 SLI 12MB + 768MB + SB live @ WinXP & 98 Dualboot.

P2 350mhz + Diamond Viper V550 + 3Dfx Voodoo 2 12MB + AWE64 + 128MB SDR @ msdos / win98.

Reply 10 of 19, by Kane 93

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-15, 13:48:
That is a fancy card. Like many Ti-200s. I must have the shittiest one there is - no RAM heatsinks or anything. (Asus 8200) And […]
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That is a fancy card. Like many Ti-200s. I must have the shittiest one there is - no RAM heatsinks or anything. (Asus 8200)
And the original cooler was so basic and noisy that when it passed on to our parent's PC / LAN standby, I replaced it by a random, passive Socket 7 heatsink.
It lived happily ever after in a really shitty, ill-ventilated tower case.
(Until we all became eco-conscious and I replaced it with a Matrox G450 to save power.)

So, I could still test it for OC potential, but based on that test through several years and LAN parties, I'd say the factory defaults are up to interpretation.

I have the Original Geforce 3 Asus 8200. I have managed to Overclock it to the TI-500. I think its a fantastic card however its quite noise. I'm going to have a look for a better fan and perhaps a better heatsink however I think the heatsink is good 😀

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Reply 11 of 19, by GRIFF

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https://hwbot.org/submission/3876087_griff_3d … 8mb_10791_marks

My work with GeForce 3 TI on LN2 cooling.

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Last edited by GRIFF on 2023-12-30, 16:12. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 12 of 19, by GRIFF

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This card is without voltmods. On air I have 280-300mhz on GPU with stock voltage. With voltmods 330-340mhz is possible with good air cooling.

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Reply 13 of 19, by GRIFF

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What I can advise everyone is to change the capacitors even if those seem good to you. For this competition I tested 7 GeForce 3 TI 200 and I had two with artifact without overclocking. By changing the capacitors the artifacts disappeared and all the cards I tested could be overclocked to 250-260mhz.

Reply 14 of 19, by ciornyi

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Can confirm its overclock friendly, but heat on back side get really high i cant touch long with my finger . So for safe side its better to stick radiator on back side too. Here is my gainward gf3 ti200.

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DOS: 166mmx/16mb/Y719/S3virge
DOS/95: PII333/128mb/AWE64/TNT2M64
Win98: P3_900/256mb/SB live/3dfx V3
Win Me: Athlon 1700+/512mb/Audigy2/Geforce 3Ti200
Win XP: E8600/4096mb/SB X-fi/HD6850

Reply 15 of 19, by GRIFF

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ciornyi wrote on 2023-12-30, 17:41:

Can confirm its overclock friendly, but heat on back side get really high i cant touch long with my finger . So for safe side its better to stick radiator on back side too. Here is my gainward gf3 ti200.

What type of memory is mounted on your card? I guess it's not Samsung because 500mhz for Samsung is not much. To improve heat exchange, the surface of the GPU must be lapped, thus losing aesthetics and is not acceptable to collectors. To improve the cooling of the PCB on the back you need to use the 2.5-3mm thick thermal pad with a heatsink.

Reply 16 of 19, by Thermalwrong

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GRIFF wrote on 2023-12-30, 20:38:
ciornyi wrote on 2023-12-30, 17:41:

Can confirm its overclock friendly, but heat on back side get really high i cant touch long with my finger . So for safe side its better to stick radiator on back side too. Here is my gainward gf3 ti200.

What type of memory is mounted on your card? I guess it's not Samsung because 500mhz for Samsung is not much. To improve heat exchange, the surface of the GPU must be lapped, thus losing aesthetics and is not acceptable to collectors. To improve the cooling of the PCB on the back you need to use the 2.5-3mm thick thermal pad with a heatsink.

Personally I went with a copper shim made up of some copper slug tape with the adhesive removed, folded over for double thickness with thermal paste sandwiched between each side. Should be something like 0.2mm to 0.4mm thick - the aluminium circle is inset from the plastic package which explains why they would've used thermal pads originally instead of paste. I'm not interested in lapping a core these days like you say since it ruins the aesthetics and makes it tough to know which chip it is in future.

I'm pretty sure I did lap the core on my Geforce 3 non-Ti back in the day though, wish I understood about volt mods back then too. Bumping the core voltage up to Ti500 level does improve the overclocking ability a fair bit since that's the main differentiator between the Ti200 & Ti500 chips apart from the faster memory.

Sadly right now I don't remember what scores / core clocks I got with my reference MSI Ti200 and Medion Ti200 cards, the computer with the latter GPU is all packed away right now.

Reply 17 of 19, by GRIFF

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Thermalwrong wrote on 2023-12-31, 02:00:
Personally I went with a copper shim made up of some copper slug tape with the adhesive removed, folded over for double thicknes […]
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GRIFF wrote on 2023-12-30, 20:38:
ciornyi wrote on 2023-12-30, 17:41:

Can confirm its overclock friendly, but heat on back side get really high i cant touch long with my finger . So for safe side its better to stick radiator on back side too. Here is my gainward gf3 ti200.

What type of memory is mounted on your card? I guess it's not Samsung because 500mhz for Samsung is not much. To improve heat exchange, the surface of the GPU must be lapped, thus losing aesthetics and is not acceptable to collectors. To improve the cooling of the PCB on the back you need to use the 2.5-3mm thick thermal pad with a heatsink.

Personally I went with a copper shim made up of some copper slug tape with the adhesive removed, folded over for double thickness with thermal paste sandwiched between each side. Should be something like 0.2mm to 0.4mm thick - the aluminium circle is inset from the plastic package which explains why they would've used thermal pads originally instead of paste. I'm not interested in lapping a core these days like you say since it ruins the aesthetics and makes it tough to know which chip it is in future.

I'm pretty sure I did lap the core on my Geforce 3 non-Ti back in the day though, wish I understood about volt mods back then too. Bumping the core voltage up to Ti500 level does improve the overclocking ability a fair bit since that's the main differentiator between the Ti200 & Ti500 chips apart from the faster memory.

Sadly right now I don't remember what scores / core clocks I got with my reference MSI Ti200 and Medion Ti200 cards, the computer with the latter GPU is all packed away right now.

GPU and VRAM supply voltage depends on several factors. First of all by the components used. I have several identical boards and the voltage difference comes to an easy 0.1V. Between different PCBs the difference is up to 0.2V. I had never measured more. Never had TI500 to say what voltage it has and how it differs from the TI200. The best memories on the TI200 cards are the Samsung 4ns. They easily reach 270mhz (540) in some cases with good cooling with +10-15 degrees outside you can reach 300mhz (600) at Air.

Reply 18 of 19, by smtkr

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GRIFF wrote on 2023-12-30, 20:38:
ciornyi wrote on 2023-12-30, 17:41:

Can confirm its overclock friendly, but heat on back side get really high i cant touch long with my finger . So for safe side its better to stick radiator on back side too. Here is my gainward gf3 ti200.

What type of memory is mounted on your card? I guess it's not Samsung because 500mhz for Samsung is not much. To improve heat exchange, the surface of the GPU must be lapped, thus losing aesthetics and is not acceptable to collectors. To improve the cooling of the PCB on the back you need to use the 2.5-3mm thick thermal pad with a heatsink.

Can you show or explain how you mounted a cooler on the back side of the card?

Reply 19 of 19, by Thermalwrong

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GRIFF wrote on 2023-12-31, 18:51:
Thermalwrong wrote on 2023-12-31, 02:00:
Personally I went with a copper shim made up of some copper slug tape with the adhesive removed, folded over for double thicknes […]
Show full quote
GRIFF wrote on 2023-12-30, 20:38:

What type of memory is mounted on your card? I guess it's not Samsung because 500mhz for Samsung is not much. To improve heat exchange, the surface of the GPU must be lapped, thus losing aesthetics and is not acceptable to collectors. To improve the cooling of the PCB on the back you need to use the 2.5-3mm thick thermal pad with a heatsink.

Personally I went with a copper shim made up of some copper slug tape with the adhesive removed, folded over for double thickness with thermal paste sandwiched between each side. Should be something like 0.2mm to 0.4mm thick - the aluminium circle is inset from the plastic package which explains why they would've used thermal pads originally instead of paste. I'm not interested in lapping a core these days like you say since it ruins the aesthetics and makes it tough to know which chip it is in future.

I'm pretty sure I did lap the core on my Geforce 3 non-Ti back in the day though, wish I understood about volt mods back then too. Bumping the core voltage up to Ti500 level does improve the overclocking ability a fair bit since that's the main differentiator between the Ti200 & Ti500 chips apart from the faster memory.

Sadly right now I don't remember what scores / core clocks I got with my reference MSI Ti200 and Medion Ti200 cards, the computer with the latter GPU is all packed away right now.

GPU and VRAM supply voltage depends on several factors. First of all by the components used. I have several identical boards and the voltage difference comes to an easy 0.1V. Between different PCBs the difference is up to 0.2V. I had never measured more. Never had TI500 to say what voltage it has and how it differs from the TI200. The best memories on the TI200 cards are the Samsung 4ns. They easily reach 270mhz (540) in some cases with good cooling with +10-15 degrees outside you can reach 300mhz (600) at Air.

The GF3 mostly uses the SC1175 DC/DC controller which I catalogued the resistor divider values for on different cards - I checked out the voltages in situ on some and calculated them using the resistors and this excel formula: "=SUM(1.25*(1+G26/H26))". Then played with values to get the desired voltages and swapped the SMD resistors to set the voltages. The classic volt-mod for these cards puts a 1k resistor from GND to one of the pins and that works pretty well as a shunt to put the Ti200's vcore in the same ballpark as the Ti500, it's a good method.

One thing I found is that the VMEM voltage is pretty high on the faster TSOP DDR, usually around 3.5v and even 3.63v on the Ti500 card so the memory heatsinks aren't just there for looks. In the process I found some weird error in the setup of a Ti200 card which was putting 3.4v into the VDDQ for the RAM which is the DDR signal voltage that should be ~2.6v and doesn't increase across cards or on the Ti500.

I seem to have collected a few of them so here's a bunch of voltages I measured on the different cards:

geforce 3 & 4 card voltages.png
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