VOGONS


First post, by bbking67

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I have a few few PCI video cards to choose from for my Socket 7 build:

Matrox Millenium / Matrox Millenium 220
Mach64
Mach64-VT
ATI Rage II
Rendition Verite 1000

I want to play DOS games in addition to Windows 98... which card of these will do the best job?

I also plan to use it with a Voodoo 1, Voodoo 2 and a Matrox M3d (PowerVR).

I am leaning toward the Matrox because of the stellar GDI Windows performance, but I've never used one with DOS before...

Suggestions?

Reply 1 of 12, by matze79

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The matrox has issues in scrolling games like commander keen.
The verite is also very bad for msdos (slow)

ATI mach64 Cards also have some issues with dos games.

None of your choices is 100% trouble free

Last edited by matze79 on 2022-04-22, 22:04. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 2 of 12, by matze79

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https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 3 of 12, by Cuttoon

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hehe, that question never gets old. Brace yourself for half a bible's worth of very specific advice and idle speculation.

But, my two cents: All cards should be plenty fast for DOS games. It's a socket 7, after all.
The Gona list mentioned before sure is helpful if you have some specific games in mind.

Now, including Win98 in your plans extends the question by about 3.7 gazillion times, as much more demanding tasks come into play. Like, 3D.
But, none of your cards are worth mentioning in that regard. So it rather boils down to a 2D choice.

Some ATI rage had early mpeg decoding support, which is only a nice gimmick for VCDs or maybe DVDs, but was new at the time and deserves an honorable mention.

I personally like the Matrox cards, they used to be rather elite 2D cards in 1995 and were known for an absolute stellar analogue VGA signal. So, in case you're using a CRT monitor, those are the way to go.
Also, imho, their Windows driver equipment and options is something to behold - make sure you install the full version with utilities, there's bound to be a CD image available.
Their DOS performance had few rivals, as well.
So, probably a pretty good companion for a Voodoo2.
AFAIK, many people used a contemporary AGP card with super socket 7 systems but paired that with a PCI Voodoo2 to have good 3D performance.

I like jumpers.

Reply 4 of 12, by Sphere478

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On socket 7 sometimes it’s whatever card actually works 🤣. I’ve had good luck with radeon 7500 and 9200 pro though

(7500 is a tad faster)

But to answer your question, try them to make sure they actually post, then decide between those. I have over 20 different pci cards and only like five of them reliably work on socket 7 without issues

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 5 of 12, by 386SX

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If the Voodoo cards will be used I'd go for the Matrox choice indeed for the stable and strong VGA output quality. I'm not sure for old msdos gaming but they seems like the best cards of that list. I don't have the Rage II but having tested the better Rage IIc AGP and even the Rage Pro PCI, while very good on paper on real life much less. The Rage IIc AGP would perform "ok" in very low resolution even Dx6 games (400x300) with a good cpu while the Rage Pro PCI is much slower than expected ... so I can imagine the Rage II PCI how it can run.

Reply 6 of 12, by The Serpent Rider

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Out of listed - Matrox has best performance in DOS. Compatibility may vary on all cards, but Rendition Verite 1000 is a card "with special needs".

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 7 of 12, by bbking67

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I think thats what I will go with... either the original Mystique or the Mystique 220. Hopefully at least one still works. I thought I had a Riva 128 PCI, but it's agp like most of my stash.

You know I used to turn my nose up ap any of the S3 stuff back in the day, but now I wish i had some.

Reply 8 of 12, by 386SX

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Riva 128 PCI are great cards for 2D vga output but it'd still demand a good cpu and at the end the Matrox+Voodoo1/2 solution might be a "better" compatible faster combination while over the time I don't like anymore the old add in analog cabled solution concept. But the Riva 128 3D rendering might result both interesting and bad depending on the game and expectations imho.

Reply 9 of 12, by Gmlb256

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-04-23, 06:49:

On socket 7 sometimes it’s whatever card actually works 🤣.

I don't fully agree with this. DOS games are taken into account so "whatever" video card that works won't fit into this. 😜

It depends which games the OP will be actually playing though.

bbking67 wrote on 2022-04-23, 22:31:

You know I used to turn my nose up ap any of the S3 stuff back in the day, but now I wish i had some.

I don't get the disdain certain people has on S3 cards, they have decent GUI performance on Windows (albeit behind Matrox) and excellent DOS compatibility for a PCI card if the poor 3D capabilities are set aside. I believe that they got that perception due to bad manufactures.

Reply 10 of 12, by Sphere478

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-28, 00:42:
I don't fully agree with this. DOS games are taken into account so "whatever" video card that works won't fit into this. :P […]
Show full quote
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-04-23, 06:49:

On socket 7 sometimes it’s whatever card actually works 🤣.

I don't fully agree with this. DOS games are taken into account so "whatever" video card that works won't fit into this. 😜

It depends which games the OP will be actually playing though.

bbking67 wrote on 2022-04-23, 22:31:

You know I used to turn my nose up ap any of the S3 stuff back in the day, but now I wish i had some.

I don't get the disdain certain people has on S3 cards, they have decent GUI performance on Windows (albeit behind Matrox) and excellent DOS compatibility for a PCI card if the poor 3D capabilities are set aside. I believe that they got that perception due to bad manufactures.

You misunderstood my sentiment, I’m saying most of the cards I’ve tried on socket 7 simply seem to refuse to work as in no video, so you can’t be terribly picky. First you have to find ones that work at all. Lol

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 11 of 12, by Gmlb256

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-04-28, 01:37:

You misunderstood my sentiment, I’m saying most of the cards I’ve tried on socket 7 simply seem to refuse to work as in no video, so you can’t be terribly picky. First you have to find ones that work at all. Lol

If one sticks with period correct video cards then that wouldn't be an issue, but yeah one has to make sure that it works at all.

By the way, I appreciate your topics around the Socket 7 platform. 😁

Reply 12 of 12, by Sphere478

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-28, 01:44:
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-04-28, 01:37:

You misunderstood my sentiment, I’m saying most of the cards I’ve tried on socket 7 simply seem to refuse to work as in no video, so you can’t be terribly picky. First you have to find ones that work at all. Lol

If one sticks with period correct video cards then that wouldn't be an issue, but yeah one has to make sure that it works at all.

By the way, I appreciate your topics around the Socket 7 platform. 😁

Thanks 😀

Yeah I have like 6 2-8mb cards only like two of them show video. Period correct helps but not entirely.

These are what I recall:
Trident I think works
S3 no video
Rage 128 no video
Gf2 no video on dvi (making it useless for me)
6200 driver issues but always boots
5500 one no video, other has driver issues
Nvs280 no vodeo
Nvs 400 irq issues, some driver issues
Fire gl ??? No video
Firegl video but driver issues
X1300 always boots but driver issues
7300 no video
8400 no video
620 no video
7000 radeon always works
7500 radeon always works
Radeon 9200 pro always works

This is from memory and probably only about 2/3 of what I have tried

I have a whole slew of those 2-8mb cards, don’t recall all the models.

But yeah as you can see period correct doesn’t always mean working.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)