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First post, by acl

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Hi,

I'm trying to use a Matrox Mystique 220 PCI on Windows 98SE.
An i ran into an unusual issue.

I started from a fresh Windows98SE system (2 times) using 3 different drivers (The one provided my Microsoft, The one from Matrox website, The one from VogonsDrivers (maybe the same as the one from Matrox)).
At installation, i always got an error (inst_16.exe access violation) but the install finishes.
After reboot, 2d works fine at all the screen resolutions i tested 640x480 -> 1280x1024 (16/24/32bpp)
But as soon as i try to start a game (or 3DMark) i got either a BSOD or a direct reboot.

I have no IRQ issues (IRQ10 registered) no error/warning in devices panel.
I'm using the following configuration :
- Celeron 300A @450 / Gigabyte GA-6VXE+ (Rev4.1) / Vortex advantage / Windows 98SE / DX7

Is my card dead ?
Thanks !

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Reply 1 of 19, by Garrett W

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Access Violation on an installer executable seems to indicate either something wrong with the package (data corruption maybe) which we can maybe rule out since you tried three different driver packages or perhaps something wrong with your system, unstable or defective RAM can be a culprit. Try running the system at 66MHz FSB and see if the same issue persists.

Another suggestion is to disable Bus Mastering on the driver control panel, as that is a bit messy with these early Matrox cards on faster systems like this 440BX system. In fact, even on socket 5 and socket 7 Intel chipsets it can be a bit flaky.

Reply 3 of 19, by acl

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I'm not in front of the computer right now, but i think a saw something about bus mastering in options (or maybe the readme).
But it was disabled by default (i may have tried to change it, but not sure).
I'm definitely starting to suspect the overclocking (shame. A 300A is made to run at 450...).
I will also try a memory check.

Thank you for the fresh ideas

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Reply 4 of 19, by Agent of the BSoD

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There is an option for bus mastering in the drivers. Definitely play with that.

inst_16.exe always seems to do that, but it does install just fine anyway, as you've noticed. One thing to note during install though is to make sure you don't keep your settings from the current QuickDesk install (the built-in Win98 driver) when it asks you, as that causes all sorts of problems. I've had issues with it keeping that.

The driver also seems to complain if you install DirectX 7 or higher on boot, claiming that it's out of date, but has no issues with the one Win98 comes with. You can mute that message by unchecking the checkbox so it's not really an issue. It will do the same thing with bus mastering turned off.

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Reply 5 of 19, by swaaye

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These cards are actually somewhat problematic. There was some controversy back then with video drivers doing evil things with the PCI bus in order to win benchmarks. Matrox was partaking in this. It can cause problems like sound skips, text and mouse pointer corruption.

http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/computing/ge … al/vgakills.txt

If you get any system freezing, disabling DMA/bus mastering might help.

Reply 6 of 19, by acl

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Thank you.
I tried with the stock 300Mhz but unfortunately, this does not fix the issue.
I will try to play with bus mastering. And maybe try with another motherboard.
My usual "testing" board is an Asrock 939Dual-SATA2 (very convenient board with PCIe + AGP + PCI) but i only tested the Mystique with a +/- period correct GA-6VXE+ (Via Apollo Pro 133 based)
I can also try with windows XP, just to compare.

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Reply 7 of 19, by pixel_workbench

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My Matrox Mystique experienced crashes on a i815ep socket 370 board whenever the CPU was running at 800mhz/133fsb or 600mhz/100fsb. Lowering the clocks to 400mhz/66fsb fixed the crashing issue. I was using Matrox drivers 4.11 with DirectX 7 installed on Win98 SE. Don't remember seeing any errors during installation. That could indicate either defective RAM in your system, or file corruption. I've also seen perfectly good files get corrupted when transferring them to an old system using USB3 sticks.

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Reply 8 of 19, by acl

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Fixed !!!
That was 100% the bus mastering.

I installed a fresh Windows 98SE.
To install the matrox driver, i replaced the "inst_16.exe" file with a random console exe file renamed (netstat i think). Just to be 100%sure that the inst_16.exe crash does not impact the installation.
I disabled the "bus mastering" and voilà !!! Everything works.

I think that in my previous attempts by trying different drivers i just broke the driver system and that my previous attempts to disable bus mastering just did not worked.

Thank you for your help !

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Reply 9 of 19, by dr.zeissler

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You know that myst has very limited 3d-features...performance is good though but featureset is very limited.

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Reply 10 of 19, by acl

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2022-05-16, 10:40:

You know that myst has very limited 3d-features...performance is good though but featureset is very limited.

Yes, Vlask made a nice video on it.
That's the case of many early 3D cards.
I'm only using it for 2D along with a Voodoo 2 (like probably 99% of Mystique users).
But it's a very capable 2D card with 4Mb memory for a more comfortable desktop at 1024x768 18/24 bpp
I like to keep my configs more or less period correct.
I have other cards from the same era, ATI Mach64, Intel 740, CirrusLogic Laguna3D or even Rage 128. But the Matrox is just fine.

(Laguna3D and Intel 740 have also a weird feature set. And games are sometimes totally glitched)

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Reply 11 of 19, by dr.zeissler

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Please let me know which driver you use and if it has fixed v-sync on direct-draw.
On win95x only the latest driver (1999) has vsync fixed on direct-draw.

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Reply 13 of 19, by dr.zeissler

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then please have a look:
too fast, or in sync https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=724
intro-scroller smooth or wobbeling https://www.chip.de/downloads/Giana-Worlds_48115286.html
playfield scroller smooth http://www.steffest.com/DXboulder/

Doc

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Reply 14 of 19, by dr.zeissler

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For my systems only this driver provided vsync in direct-draw with win95b DX6.
Matrox PowerDesk for Windows 95/98 Revision 4.31.041

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Reply 15 of 19, by dr.zeissler

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Dos-Programs are not effected and win-programs that have a vsync-switch are also not effected, but win-software that has no switch for vsync is broken on all other drivers that I have checked for my mystique.

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Reply 16 of 19, by acl

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2022-05-16, 16:38:
then please have a look: too fast, or in sync https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=724 intro-scroller smooth or wobbeling https: […]
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then please have a look:
too fast, or in sync https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=724
intro-scroller smooth or wobbeling https://www.chip.de/downloads/Giana-Worlds_48115286.html
playfield scroller smooth http://www.steffest.com/DXboulder/

Doc

My driver version (probably not the last version as i first sought) :

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I tested DXboulder. Scrolling looks fast. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mYXGISiB7M)

Could not test the others :

I hope this will help you. I won't be able to run more tests because i need my test bench for another motherbord. But happy to finally have the card working.

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Reply 17 of 19, by Agent of the BSoD

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That is the final driver for the Mystique, 4.12.013.

The subject of inst_16.exe failing (but doing no harm) interested me in trying to fix that, as I've always just ignored it. I've used both the driver from Matrox's website and the one on vogonsdrivers, but they both did the same thing. So I decided to unzip the latter on Win10 instead of on Win98 and copy it over that way via network file sharing and that worked flawlessly. Not sure why that fixed it. But again it doesn't seem to matter as it just installs the driver anyway.

Pentium MMX 233 | 64MB | FIC PA-2013 | Matrox Mystique 220 | SB Pro 2 | Music Quest MPU Clone | Windows 98SE
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Reply 18 of 19, by dr.zeissler

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Scrolling on DX Boulder is OK, so vsync on direct-draw is OK. Interesting.
Direct-Draw demo on pouet can be fixed if you choose custom-monitor with VESA 1024x768 60hz in the matrox-driver.

I see Bios 1.5 I use 1.8.

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Reply 19 of 19, by acl

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Agent of the BSoD wrote on 2022-05-17, 04:03:

That is the final driver for the Mystique, 4.12.013.

Thanks. Like you i tested multiple releases, and i don't remember the version i burned on the CD for installation.

Agent of the BSoD wrote on 2022-05-17, 04:03:

The subject of inst_16.exe failing (but doing no harm) interested me in trying to fix that, as I've always just ignored it.

Yes, that's weird that an official installer just crash like that. Working myself in the software industry, that's quite unprofessional to ship a broken version. (and keeping it 25 years available online)
It would be interesting to reverse the code of inst_16.exe. It seems to play a minor role in the installation, since the driver is ok even with it crashing. But i would be curious to see its real purpose.
If i had to guess by the name, i would think that it's DOS related. Something like 16bit DOS mode installation. Maybe just pushing some instruction in autoexec.bat (a quick test would be to boot to DOS mode and try to run inst_16.exe without windows)

dr.zeissler wrote on 2022-05-17, 04:57:

Scrolling on DX Boulder is OK, so vsync on direct-draw is OK. Interesting.
Direct-Draw demo on pouet can be fixed if you choose custom-monitor with VESA 1024x768 60hz in the matrox-driver.
I see Bios 1.5 I use 1.8.

Oh you're right. That may be the Bios version too.
I will try the demo from "pouet" the next time i install the motherboard on the bench. I stored it because i needed to work with another motherboard for a project but the demo is still on the disk.

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