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Reply 60 of 113, by Stryker1996

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-14, 16:06:
It depends on how you want to play Win9x era games and how you define that period. Personally, I consider Windows games released […]
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Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-14, 15:08:

Well to me I think that going above any 3dfx card would be overkill, it's like with processors, you would rather use a pentium 3 than a core 2 duo.

It depends on how you want to play Win9x era games and how you define that period. Personally, I consider Windows games released from 1996 up to (and including) 2001 as the Win9x era. Other people might have different views.

As to how you want to play these games, some folks like to use a CRT monitor and play at the period correct resolutions e.g. 1024x768 and below. Others prefer to run Win9x games at 1600x1200 with AA and AF fully maxed out at 60+ FPS. In the latter case, you need something like a Radeon X850 to play some of the more demanding 2001 games like Max Payne at those settings. But if you stick to period correct resolutions, and don't mind if a few of the later games drop below 60 FPS, even a Voodoo3 will be enough.

It's similar with the CPU choice. A Pentium 3 Coppermine at 1 GHz will run most Win9x era games very smoothly. But there are a few genuinely CPU demanding titles out there (such as the original Deus Ex) which may struggle to reach 60 FPS on that setup. This is why some people go with a high-end Pentium 4 or Athlon 64 system.

Well I would aim for above 30 fps, I watched an lgr video on the diamond s3 savage 4 pro+ and it has better FPS and the graphics are better, but it runs Max Payne badly

Reply 62 of 113, by swaaye

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Savage cards are solid for most games on Quake(s)/Unreal 1 engines but outside of those don't get your hopes up.

I think the most interesting thing to do with them is play with S3TC tech demos and UT with S3TC.

Reply 63 of 113, by Stryker1996

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But it's worth it for the texture compression

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Reply 64 of 113, by Joseph_Joestar

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Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 07:36:

But it's worth it for the texture compression

Note that only a couple of textures on each Unreal Tournament map use S3TC, usually some floors, certain walls and a few crates. The majority of the textures still look normal on an S3 Savage card.

Additionally, I think you lose Detailed Textures (different thing from compressed textures) when the S3 Metal renderer is used, so it's a trade off. You can read more about that in this thread: S3 Savage MeTal API 3D Accelerated Games List

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / Audigy1 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 65 of 113, by appiah4

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-15, 07:54:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 07:36:

But it's worth it for the texture compression

Note that only a couple of textures on each Unreal Tournament map use S3TC, usually some floors, certain walls and a few crates. The majority of the textures still look normal on an S3 Savage card.

Additionally, I think you lose Detailed Textures (different thing from compressed textures) when the S3 Metal renderer is used, so it's a trade off. You can read more about that in this thread: S3 Savage MeTal API 3D Accelerated Games List

To be fair ground textures make up for about 50% of the FOV so any improvements on those textures and their filtering has more impact on IQ than other things like objects etc.

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Reply 66 of 113, by leileilol

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IQ is very subjective here when a lot of those special S3 textures are obvious photoshop filter jobs. Plus, S3's novelty was only exclusive for like a year anyway when S3TC started appearing on other cards soon after and cwdonhal's UT GL renderer would come to support them.

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Reply 67 of 113, by Joseph_Joestar

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-15, 08:36:

To be fair ground textures make up for about 50% of the FOV so any improvements on those textures and their filtering has more impact on IQ than other things like objects etc.

I would agree if all ground textures on all maps were compressed. But they aren't.

Heck, on certain maps, one room uses compressed textures on the floor while another one right next to it doesn't. It's really weird.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / Audigy1 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 68 of 113, by Stryker1996

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leileilol wrote on 2022-06-15, 08:54:

IQ is very subjective here when a lot of those special S3 textures are obvious photoshop filter jobs. Plus, S3's novelty was only exclusive for like a year anyway when S3TC started appearing on other cards soon after and cwdonhal's UT GL renderer would come to support them.

I got it from lgr and I don't think he would photoshop

Reply 69 of 113, by Stryker1996

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-14, 16:06:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-14, 15:08:

Well to me I think that going above any 3dfx card would be overkill, it's like with processors, you would rather use a pentium 3 than a core 2 duo.

A Pentium 3 Coppermine at 1 GHz will run most Win9x era games very smoothly. But there are a few genuinely CPU demanding titles out there (such as the original Deus Ex)

What if I use a dual socket tualatin board with 2 1.4 ghz pentium 3's

Reply 70 of 113, by Joseph_Joestar

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Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 12:41:

What if I use a dual socket tualatin board with 2 1.4 ghz pentium 3's

Windows 98 only recognizes one CPU, so having a dual socket configuration would not get you any extra performance. You would need Windows NT, 2000 or XP to benefit from such a setup.

That said, a 1.4 GHz Tualatin is excellent for Win9x gaming. It will work fine for the vast majority of games released before 2002. There may be one or two exceptions (like the aforementioned Deus Ex) which might not reach 60 FPS in the most demanding areas, but that's because those games are poorly optimized.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / Audigy1 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 71 of 113, by Stryker1996

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-15, 13:10:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 12:41:

What if I use a dual socket tualatin board with 2 1.4 ghz pentium 3's

Windows 98 only recognizes one CPU, so having a dual socket configuration would not get you any extra performance. You would need Windows NT, 2000 or XP to benefit from such a setup.

That said, a 1.4 GHz Tualatin is excellent for Win9x gaming. It will work fine for the vast majority of games released before 2002. There may be one or two exceptions (like the aforementioned Deus Ex) which might not reach 60 FPS in the most demanding areas, but that's because those games are poorly optimized.

If it can at least run halo that would be great

Reply 72 of 113, by The Serpent Rider

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It's not that hard to run Halo, because everything is locked to 30 fps without interpolation.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 73 of 113, by kitten.may.cry

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Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 13:16:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-15, 13:10:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 12:41:

What if I use a dual socket tualatin board with 2 1.4 ghz pentium 3's

Windows 98 only recognizes one CPU, so having a dual socket configuration would not get you any extra performance. You would need Windows NT, 2000 or XP to benefit from such a setup.

That said, a 1.4 GHz Tualatin is excellent for Win9x gaming. It will work fine for the vast majority of games released before 2002. There may be one or two exceptions (like the aforementioned Deus Ex) which might not reach 60 FPS in the most demanding areas, but that's because those games are poorly optimized.

If it can at least run halo that would be great

You can ALWAYS overclock said 1.4Ghz P3, probably easier to accomplish on the later boards.

Reply 74 of 113, by Stryker1996

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kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-15, 14:42:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 13:16:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-15, 13:10:

Windows 98 only recognizes one CPU, so having a dual socket configuration would not get you any extra performance. You would need Windows NT, 2000 or XP to benefit from such a setup.

That said, a 1.4 GHz Tualatin is excellent for Win9x gaming. It will work fine for the vast majority of games released before 2002. There may be one or two exceptions (like the aforementioned Deus Ex) which might not reach 60 FPS in the most demanding areas, but that's because those games are poorly optimized.

If it can at least run halo that would be great

You can ALWAYS overclock said 1.4Ghz P3, probably easier to accomplish on the later boards.

Can I overclock it that far

Reply 75 of 113, by kitten.may.cry

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Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 14:45:
kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-15, 14:42:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 13:16:

If it can at least run halo that would be great

You can ALWAYS overclock said 1.4Ghz P3, probably easier to accomplish on the later boards.

Can I overclock it that far

It would take a board without ISA, based on tests I've done.

Great overclocker!

Reply 76 of 113, by Stryker1996

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kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-15, 15:00:
Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 14:45:
kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-06-15, 14:42:

You can ALWAYS overclock said 1.4Ghz P3, probably easier to accomplish on the later boards.

Can I overclock it that far

It would take a board without ISA, based on tests I've done.

Great overclocker!

So then what board would work best

Reply 77 of 113, by The Serpent Rider

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You don't need much headroom when it comes to 1.4ghz CPU. 155-160 mhz FSB is possible on VIA boards, which is 1.6-1.7ghz limit for most Tualatins anyway..

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 78 of 113, by Stryker1996

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-15, 15:06:

You don't need much headroom when it comes to 1.4ghz CPU. 155-160 mhz FSB is possible on VIA boards, which is 1.6-1.7ghz limit for most Tualatins anyway..

I saw someone having one overclocked to 2ghz but I think you might need some extreme cooling

Reply 79 of 113, by kitten.may.cry

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Stryker1996 wrote on 2022-06-15, 15:13:
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-15, 15:06:

You don't need much headroom when it comes to 1.4ghz CPU. 155-160 mhz FSB is possible on VIA boards, which is 1.6-1.7ghz limit for most Tualatins anyway..

I saw someone having one overclocked to 2ghz but I think you might need some extreme cooling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHCHTbFhhqE

His chiller is very old school.