VOGONS


First post, by Sly_Botts

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Hi,

Has anyone here ever had to remove and replace the VRAM on a Voodoo 3 2000?

Unfortunately I had an EPOX 440bx mobo that had some traces fry a few weeks ago. I since replaced it with an ASUS P2B motherboard. Unfortunately, once I got it together, I started getting artifacts on my voodoo 3 indicating one or more RAM chips were bad.

I've since ordered new 200mhz chips that are 5ns and will downclock as needed. M12L16161A-5TG.

https://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/data … 161A-5T-pdf.php

I was curious if anyone had any success at this?

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life.

Reply 2 of 15, by Datadrainer

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Hi.
My big recommendation: find a qualified person to do the job.
If you are asking how to replace a chip, it means you have no skill to do it. So by trying to do it yourself, you will most certainly get what you want not.
But to answer, the "best" way I found to do such a thing, is to unsolder a chip with a heat gun using the correct nozzle. Then by using copper braid and a soldering iron to clean the pads of tin. Then put soldering paste on the pads, place the chips and heat gun again. Once the soldering paste react it retracts and link to the chips legs and its done. But again, it require skills and precision. So my small recommendation: do some training on dead/useless boards before...

Knowing things is great. Understanding things is better. Creating things is even better.

Reply 3 of 15, by pentiumspeed

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Especially on a VooDoo card, you don't dare to as you don't have skill to do it without killing it. Takes lot of practice to get skill right, just don't. Please. I know this as I was soldering for living then got hired to do hot air soldering that was lot of practice to learn that skill again.

If you still not confident, pass it off to a expert tech who do this hot air soldering for a living.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 4 of 15, by Sly_Botts

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Datadrainer wrote on 2022-07-10, 20:16:
Hi. My big recommendation: find a qualified person to do the job. If you are asking how to replace a chip, it means you have no […]
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Hi.
My big recommendation: find a qualified person to do the job.
If you are asking how to replace a chip, it means you have no skill to do it. So by trying to do it yourself, you will most certainly get what you want not.
But to answer, the "best" way I found to do such a thing, is to unsolder a chip with a heat gun using the correct nozzle. Then by using copper braid and a soldering iron to clean the pads of tin. Then put soldering paste on the pads, place the chips and heat gun again. Once the soldering paste react it retracts and link to the chips legs and its done. But again, it require skills and precision. So my small recommendation: do some training on dead/useless boards before...

Thanks for the reply,

I know how to do it. I was just curious if anyone here had done it before.

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life.

Reply 6 of 15, by pentiumspeed

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Buy a tube of flux AmTech 559. Only this link I supplied from these seller is genuine, and I had bought from this seller before, and is indeed genuine. Other sellers are considered fakes.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175335728436?hash=ite … 4EAAOSwmm1ivOAt

I use this flux daily and it is great at my work. Doesn't degrade fast when heated, cleans up nicely with 99% alcohol.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 8 of 15, by mockingbird

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-07-11, 00:08:

why risk ebay when you can buy from the source? https://amtechdirect.com/collections/nc-559-v3

Because they're significantly overpricing the product for what it is. What you're actually paying for when you buy Amtech is for them to subsidize their strict regimen of overly-zealous expiration dates, and not for the raw cost of the materials they put inside their products. They probably also discard all their "expired" product, rather than sell it, at risk of cutting into their profit margins.

I use PF-400 flux (RA - better than RMA or No Clean, in my own experience)...

It's not really meant to be put in a syringe, and is more viscous than Amtech, but with a bit more pressure on the plunger than Amtech or Amtech knock-offs, it does come out nicely. Plus, it is genuine (and formulated with colophony, as opposed to the who knows what nastly synthetic stuff the Chinese are using), lasts well past its shelf life, and is $10 for 50 grams, whereas Amtech charges $35 for 30g.

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Reply 10 of 15, by Sly_Botts

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So I went about the task of replacing the RAM on the Voodoo3 2000. I ordered m12l16161a-5tg memory 200MHz 512K x 16Bit x 2Banks.

There were some pads that were in bad shape and lifted so I had to repair those.

Unfortunately I was unsuccessful, despite being meticulous and working on this for hours.

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It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life.

Reply 11 of 15, by Sly_Botts

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Result.

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It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life.

Reply 12 of 15, by rasz_pl

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Datadrainer wrote on 2022-07-10, 20:16:

My big recommendation: find a qualified person to do the job.
If you are asking how to replace a chip, it means you have no skill to do it.
do some training on dead/useless boards before...

Sly_Botts wrote on 2022-07-10, 20:48:

I know how to do it.

Sly_Botts wrote on 2022-07-27, 01:40:

There were some pads that were in bad shape and lifted so I had to repair those.

Pads were fine pre repair attempt, you lifted them. Did it happen when popping chips, or when cleaning pads?
This job required pre-heating the pcb, flux to help transfer the heat to all the pins, maybe even vacuum pickup, realizing pads are delicate and not scraping with braid (especially perpendicular to the pads), all the things one slowly learns on the job. Thankfully it was only $100 v3 and we all learned something.

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 13 of 15, by Sly_Botts

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-07-27, 02:24:
Pads were fine pre repair attempt, you lifted them. Did it happen when popping chips, or when cleaning pads? This job required […]
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Datadrainer wrote on 2022-07-10, 20:16:

My big recommendation: find a qualified person to do the job.
If you are asking how to replace a chip, it means you have no skill to do it.
do some training on dead/useless boards before...

Sly_Botts wrote on 2022-07-10, 20:48:

I know how to do it.

Sly_Botts wrote on 2022-07-27, 01:40:

There were some pads that were in bad shape and lifted so I had to repair those.

Pads were fine pre repair attempt, you lifted them. Did it happen when popping chips, or when cleaning pads?
This job required pre-heating the pcb, flux to help transfer the heat to all the pins, maybe even vacuum pickup, realizing pads are delicate and not scraping with braid (especially perpendicular to the pads), all the things one slowly learns on the job. Thankfully it was only $100 v3 and we all learned something.

Yes I'm learning quite a bit. No I did not lift the pads popping chips, I think it's possible they came lose when I was trying to reflow the memory chips when I noticed problems, probably applied too much heat at some point as they lifted when I was cleaning the pads (not perpendicular). I assumed they could have become weakened by age. I really was trying to be careful. I was also using flux of course.

Your snide attitude aside, you're right, you learn as you go along, and I'm learning. I'm not upset by this as is not my only V3 card, so it was a good experience and worth a shot.

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life.

Reply 14 of 15, by mockingbird

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Sly_Botts wrote on 2022-07-27, 03:15:

Your snide attitude aside, you're right, you learn as you go along, and I'm learning. I'm not upset by this as is not my only V3 card, so it was a good experience and worth a shot.

Cheer up... Not all repair attempts are successful. I'm going to be attempting this in the future (when time allows!) on a Voodoo3 3000 I bought from a guy at a classifieds meet-up by an Esso gas station almost 25 years ago. He sold me a dud 🤣, and I could never let that go. Thankfully, I've acquired the skill and equipment over time to replace RAM chips.

I'm going to be taking a different approach than you though... M12L16161A chips are farily common - the 143Mhz 7ns variants, that is. I've been collecting them off old equipment for a while for just this project.

Another thing I'll do is replace the electrolytic capacitors... I will also flash the BIOS to the Voodoo3 2000 because of the slower RAM.

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Reply 15 of 15, by RogueTrip2012

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I'm oldschool.

Will use chipquik for removal of component and then drag solder for installing.

hot air can destroy things quickly.

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