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First post, by Bruno128

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Hi
I'm comparing two PCI-E 16x cards in the same system, s775 Pentium 4HT 3GHz running XP SP3.

One is high-end from 2006, a 7900GT 256MB DDR3, Forceware 93.71. 3DMark03 = 16881 pts.
Another is mid-range from 2011, a Radeon HD6670 1GB GDDR5, Catalyst 13.9. 3DMark03 = 29566 pts.

And despite the 3DMark score is significantly better, Radeon exhibits insane FPS drops in some scenes.

21 FPS!
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The majority of time FPS stays at 60 frames for both cards and the drops seem to be unrelated to amount of monsters or light sources or the area size but rather the human body props.

Game ver. 1.31 CD, settings are 1024x768@60Hz, Ultra, 8xFSAA. Tried autoexec options forcing Ultra settings per this guide, has no effect.

So is it just that Doom 3 is optimized for NVidia? Is some certain feature performed in software because the Radeon lacks it? There is this thread showing mixed results.

Last edited by Bruno128 on 2023-02-12, 23:16. Edited 1 time in total.

Now playing: Red Faction on 2003 Acrylic build


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Reply 3 of 16, by Bruno128

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-02-12, 22:46:

7900GT is not high end card but close. The high end is 7900GTX.

Cheers,

if we must get boring, 7900gtx is enthusiast-level

Now playing: Red Faction on 2003 Acrylic build


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Reply 4 of 16, by Bruno128

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-02-12, 22:44:

Enable triple-buffering or disable Vsync.

Thanks for the suggestion, did it in CCC, no change.

Now playing: Red Faction on 2003 Acrylic build


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Reply 6 of 16, by leileilol

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I never seen anyone recommend that. Dhewm3's usually the preferred yamagi-like analogue to maintained doom3 source ports and should provide no gratuitous new graphical effects (at least it restores carmack's reverse and should still have the ARB2 path)

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long live PCem

Reply 7 of 16, by DosFreak

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Disable AA
Use High instead of Ultra
Look for any config tweaks for Doom 3 for radeon cards.
Try older or newer video drivers or OpenGL ICD versions.

If you want to try ports you can try:
fhDoom v1.5.2 1414 or older
Ultimate Quake Engine v132 (Modify MajorOS and Subsystem in header to 4.0)
dhewm3 v1.5.1pre1 (Modify MajorOS and Subsystem in header to 4.0)

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 9 of 16, by swaaye

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leileilol wrote on 2023-02-13, 00:04:

I never seen anyone recommend that. Dhewm3's usually the preferred yamagi-like analogue to maintained doom3 source ports and should provide no gratuitous new graphical effects (at least it restores carmack's reverse and should still have the ARB2 path)

I don't really follow the ports. UQE only added widescreen resolutions and automatic FOV for those resolutions. I was tired of using the console to set custom resolutions hehe.

Reply 10 of 16, by swaaye

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Yeah I would try without AA and see what happens. I don't know if 1GB RAM would be an issue though. I would definitely lean towards AMD driver backward compatibility quirks.

Reply 11 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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You can always use RivaTunerStatistics server (via MSI Afterburner) to see VRAM and GPU usage and other potential bottlenecks. Also stable 60fps are not possible on P4 3Ghz.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 12 of 16, by iraito

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I got low FPS too while using an x1900xtx with a P4HT (a lot of stuttering too), when i switched to a core2duo my fps went up to 60\55 with everything maxed at 1280x1024.

I think it's the CPU and RAM combination, even though i tried lowering details, resolution and effects i could never get a stable framerate while using a P4.
You should experience a similar behavior in stalker and neverwinter nights 2, it was a stutter fest for me.

Last edited by iraito on 2023-02-14, 06:14. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 13 of 16, by Bruno128

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Thanks for all the suggestions, here is situation report:
All FPS numbers below are for thatsame scene with the corpses (Delta Lab) pictured on screenshot in OP.

Quick recap:
Catalyst 13.9, 1024x768/ Ultra / 8xFSAA = 21FPS.
Catalyst 13.9, 1024x768/ Ultra / noFSAA = 21FPS.
Catalyst 13.9, settings downgraded to 800x600 / Medium / noFSAA = 22FPS.
Catalyst downgraded to 11.4, lowest version supporting HD6670, settings are 800x600 / Medium / noFSAA = 16FPS.

Now I did mention that I'm comparing the 2 specific cards and while yes it's not precise 60fps in majority of scenes but rather a 50...60fps range during normal gameplay I don't consider it a showstopper. System is i915 2GB DDR2 btw.

Back to GF 7900GT, FW ver.93.71:
1024x768/ Ultra / 8xFSAA = 36FPS.
1024x768/ Ultra / noFSAA = 38FPS.
1024x768/ High / noFSAA = 38FPS.

I then went to kneecap the 7900GT to 450MHz core / 630MHz DRAM to see the effect.
1024x768/ High / noFSAA / downclocked = 37FPS.

So I see here little to no performance scaling depending on the GPU load.

I then saw this twitter conversation with John Carmack from 2012 mentioning a certain config variable on a similar card (HD5770) so I went to test it:
Catalyst 13.9, 1024x768/ Ultra / 8xFSAA / rs_enable "0" / r_skipPostProcess "1" = 21FPS.
Catalyst 13.9, 1024x768/ High / noFSAA / rs_enable "0" / r_skipPostProcess "1" = 22FPS.

Didn't work.

Now playing: Red Faction on 2003 Acrylic build


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Reply 14 of 16, by Bruno128

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Info update,
The same Radeon HD6670 with the same driver ver. 13.9 was tested with a faster CPU (quad-core) and the FPS drop problem in that scene is gone.

1024x768, Ultra, 8xFSAA, tripple buffering, v-sync.
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It appears that Doom 3 does something in software when ran on a Radeon unlike what happens with GeForce. At first I speculated it may be soft shadows but

 r_shadows 0

didn't fix it.

I call CPU bottleneck and problem solved if you run any half-decent CPU.

Now playing: Red Faction on 2003 Acrylic build


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Reply 15 of 16, by iraito

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Indeed it sounded like a bottleneck coming from the CPU, i couldn't racket my brain over the performance i had with a high end P4 HT and my GPU neither, fact is that P4s start struggling with decently demanding games from 2004 forward already; happy to hear you solved it.

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If you wanna check a blue ball playing retro PC games
MIDI Devices: RA-50 (modded to MT-32) SC-55

Reply 16 of 16, by MadMac_5

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I ran into this exact same issue with an Athlon 64 3800+, 2 GB of RAM, and an ATI X1900XTX. The game would run fine, until the framerate just nose-dived to 3 FPS during the intro section with the dropship even at 640x480 and Low detail. Downgrading to Catalyst 7.11 didn't solve the problem, nor did an un-install/re-install. I needed to delete all of the .cfg files in Doom 3\base; one set of files was left over from a previous install of the game and re-generating the configuration solved it completely. Now I can run at 1600x1200 at a near-locked 60 FPS at High detail (haven't bothered with Ultra yet, since it just doesn't use compressed textures compared to High), and thought it was worth posting the solution here for posterity. If one has a fast P4 or Athlon 64 system, it's probably not a CPU bottleneck!