If you haven't already, I would clean the contacts and change the thermal paste. That would rule out the simple stuff. Also since you are using an SIS chipset, make sure there are no compatiblity issues. I've had several motherboards that will not run right with an 9700 Pro but work fine in others.

Samsung memory? Yep, would require replacing memory chips.

I recently observed similar symptoms on a Radeon 9600 Pro, and did some research. The issue on that card were clearly related with unusual waveforms on the data strobe line (DQS) on one of the DDR memory chips. It seems the DC level on that line drifts in ways all the other DQS lines didn't drift. I tried adding pull-up/pull-down/termination resistors to stabilize the DC level, but only managed to get partial improvements that also varied a lot with card temperature. I was able to source a Radeon 9600XT for a price I considered "very acceptable" and decided to ditch the Pro card.

In case the symptons on your card are temperature dependent (gets worse or better during the run time of the computer), and you don't have similar issues with other AGP cards, it is extremely likely that this card is damaged. If you have the option to return the card to the seller (especially if it's a commercial one), do it.

I used to have luck fixing these by underclocking them. Test it with software underclocking first and if it works you can edit the BIOS and make it permanent.

Thanks, after installing win98 (waiting for my XP disk to arrive) and switching to a decent res and true colour it’s actually very difficult to pick up any corruption. It’s there but very subtle.

I’ve messaged the seller to ask a return.

Shame, I had a no idea the great ATI 9700 pro’s ended this way. Such an amazing card back in the day!!

At this point, you might as well keep it and repair it. They are worth repairing.

Not sure how I’d go about it tbh. Other than cleaning and reseating heat sinks etc everything else would probably be a step too far:

No idea how I’d go about identifying the exact issue never mind replacing or repairing a memory module.

Yup it is memory issue. That's why you always see less and less Radeon 9700 pro now, they are all dead or half dead. For this reason I bought the 9800 Pro and not the OEM one, they will live longer and sometimes are cheaper than 9700. Heck, even most of the 9800 Pro 128 bit would be alive by now.

Radeon 9800 Pro is just as busted, unless it has Hynix memory.

Yep, gutted but definitely going back. Real shame although at least the Ebay seller was spot on tbh and accepted the return. I did try and see how bad it looked loading up Q3. A sea of corruption!

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-03-12, 21:40:

Radeon 9800 Pro is just as busted, unless it has Hynix memory.

I have a 9800 Pro Sapphire Atlantis 256MB with Samsung memory and passive heatsink from a dude who played it until the cap on the mainboard bursted. Idle at 52 and full load at 62-64. I also have 9800XXL which basically an underclock XT with 128MB Samsung memory and it also lives strongly, got it from a woman who ran it in a PC for 10 years. From what I collected when I bought these, XXL and Atlantis mostly are alive. I wouldnt buy a standard OEM 9800 Pro for sure, they are mostly dead like 9700 Pro.

seiko4169 wrote on 2023-03-11, 20:13:

Just picked up a 9700 Pro. Post screen looked good with no artefacts but as soon as the Windows 98 Installer starts the screens show a large number of artifacts? It’s running on a new PSU (500w) and old ASUs P4S800 Mobo. I’m just waiting for a new drive to arrive and I’ll try installing XP but is this card already on the way out?

I’ve tried another card and no artifacts?

Return to sender?

This is damned interesting.

I just picked up a 9700 Pro AIW and same thing. POSTS fine, 2D desktop fine, artifacts when drivers loaded, then artifacts under 2D, now it artifacts at post.

What is causing these cards to die when they are used for the first time in a decade+? Like what do we need to do to prevent these from failing when we acquire them?

I'm convinced we are acquiring these working, then they are immediately dying

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-14, 05:47:

This is damned interesting. […]
Show full quote

seiko4169 wrote on 2023-03-11, 20:13:

Just picked up a 9700 Pro. Post screen looked good with no artefacts but as soon as the Windows 98 Installer starts the screens show a large number of artifacts? It’s running on a new PSU (500w) and old ASUs P4S800 Mobo. I’m just waiting for a new drive to arrive and I’ll try installing XP but is this card already on the way out?

I’ve tried another card and no artifacts?

Return to sender?

This is damned interesting.

I just picked up a 9700 Pro AIW and same thing. POSTS fine, 2D desktop fine, artifacts when drivers loaded, then artifacts under 2D, now it artifacts at post.

What is causing these cards to die when they are used for the first time in a decade+? Like what do we need to do to prevent these from failing when we acquire them?

I'm convinced we are acquiring these working, then they are immediately dying

Nothing much we can do, the cards were flawed from a design point which carried over to fabrication, my guess is the heat of being powered up and used after a decade of sitting around cracks solder joints under the die and BGA Vram, they were fab around the time that nasty ROHS compliant lead free solder was bought in and its honestly the biggest killer of hardware of this period next to the cap plague.

So all we can do is keep buying the cards and collect the working ones and try our best to repair the dying damaged cards.

IIRC there was also some really bad BGA VRam used, I cant remember off the top of my head what brand it was but it goes bad more often than not. Quick skim above and its Samsung BGA modules.

My experience is similar to TrashPanda. All early BGA vram cards are prone to fail for solder connection / thermal expansion. Reseating or replacing memory chips fixes this (temporarily)

I have repaired FX 5900U and couple ATI 9600pro cards which were confirmed working by reliable seller. Sending cards with post even with good packaging can break them causing tiny cracks in solder.

Try underclocking the RAM too. I've seen that fix some of them.

But if the artifacts change when you touch the card it's a solder problem.

timsdf wrote on 2023-03-14, 11:06:

My experience is similar to TrashPanda. All early BGA vram cards are prone to fail for solder connection / thermal expansion. Reseating or replacing memory chips fixes this (temporarily)

I have repaired FX 5900U and couple ATI 9600pro cards which were confirmed working by reliable seller. Sending cards with post even with good packaging can break them causing tiny cracks in solder.

Do you have a BGA reballing machine or have you developed another method for replacing/reseating these faulty BGA memory chips?

swaaye wrote on 2023-03-14, 18:41:

Try underclocking the RAM too. I've seen that fix some of them.

But if the artifacts change when you touch the card it's a solder problem.

If a cards artifacting at BIOs underclocking the VRAM isn't going to help, as its not even running at full power state until you load drivers anyways.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-15, 00:01:

timsdf wrote on 2023-03-14, 11:06:

My experience is similar to TrashPanda. All early BGA vram cards are prone to fail for solder connection / thermal expansion. Reseating or replacing memory chips fixes this (temporarily)

I have repaired FX 5900U and couple ATI 9600pro cards which were confirmed working by reliable seller. Sending cards with post even with good packaging can break them causing tiny cracks in solder.

Do you have a BGA reballing machine or have you developed another method for replacing/reseating these faulty BGA memory chips?

I have borrowed hot air station couple times. I've never replaced modules. Leaving that to professionals 😁 Reseat is just heating memory module and checking solder melted with magnifying lens.

Disclaimer: these are cards for my own use and I would not sell these as 100% working. If the fix isn't permanent or if post delivery broke it once, it can break it 2nd time too.

timsdf wrote on 2023-03-15, 10:42:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-15, 00:01:

timsdf wrote on 2023-03-14, 11:06:

My experience is similar to TrashPanda. All early BGA vram cards are prone to fail for solder connection / thermal expansion. Reseating or replacing memory chips fixes this (temporarily)

I have repaired FX 5900U and couple ATI 9600pro cards which were confirmed working by reliable seller. Sending cards with post even with good packaging can break them causing tiny cracks in solder.

Do you have a BGA reballing machine or have you developed another method for replacing/reseating these faulty BGA memory chips?

I have borrowed hot air station couple times. I've never replaced modules. Leaving that to professionals 😁 Reseat is just heating memory module and checking solder melted with magnifying lens.

That type of fix really only buys you a bit of extra time, eventually the solder will crack again. Its pretty much the same principal as people baking their 8800GT cards ..it buys you enough time to replace the card but it will eventually die again and normally far quicker than you expect.