VOGONS


First post, by theiceman085

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As mentioned in my previous thread I am in the research process for building my first retro gaming rig for the 1997 to 2000/2001 time frame.

I got some decent recommendations in my first thread.

One user recommended this set up

- Pentium 4 2.0GHz Northwood.
- ASUS P4P800-VM (its a bit pricey normally but I lucked out on this board). I would highly recommend sticking with Intel chipsets for a least trouble free experience, even if it costs a bit more.
- 256MB DDR400 set (2x128mb). Not very many things for that era needs much more and it avoids Win98 memory troubles. You could go to 384mb or 512mb if you want more. Dual channel isnt a big deal for 98 and I'm not even sure it even does anything.
- GF4 Ti4200
- 80GB IDE HDD
- Audigy 2 Z

which I will probably go for because the avaibility and the price point sounds good to me.

But now lets go back to my question. Some other users also recommend the Geforce FX Series. I have checked the prices and the price difference between a GF4 4200 and a fX Card ( the geforce FX 5500 for example is not that big.

The 4200 is cheaper in general but the price gap between these cards is not big enough to rule them out.

But as you have maybe already guessed i am new to this topic it is going to be my first build after all I am not certain if is a neat idea to consider the 5500 over the 4200 for my gaming needs in a certain timeframe.

Would be pleased hearing a few opinions from some more knowledgeable people.

Last edited by theiceman085 on 2023-03-20, 08:19. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 11, by RandomStranger

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Ti4200
It's still DX8 at most and the Ti4200 is around twice as fast as the FX5500.The FX can be good for late Windows 98, but not the low-end models.

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Reply 2 of 11, by Joseph_Joestar

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The GeForce 4 Ti models (4200 and up) have slightly better compatibility with Win9x games. Performance wise, the higher tier FX cards like the 5600 Ultra and the 5900XT are better of course, especially if you like to use Anti Aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering at higher resolutions.

However, the FX cards need slightly newer drivers (lowest version is 45.23) which can prevent a couple of games from working correctly, e.g. some of the Need for Speed titles. Additionally, the FX cards also suffer from a text distortion issue in some older titles, which is unrelated to the driver version. This problem does not occur on the GeForce 4 cards.

Between the two cards that you mention, the GeForce 4 Ti4200 is the better choice overall.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 3 of 11, by theiceman085

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Thanks a lot for the informative answers.

@Joseph_Joestar In that case I tis going to be the GF4 4200 ti then. I have checke out the highter tiers the FX series as well but the Ultra models too expensive for my liking.

Reply 4 of 11, by theiceman085

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What do you guys think about Radeon 9800pro for my needs. I came across this card during my price research for the Geforce 4200ti. The Radeon card is bit more expensive than 4200 but the price gap is not big enough to make the Radeon card a no go.

I am still more inclined towards the 4200 the be honest but I want to look out for other potential options as well.

Reply 5 of 11, by Joseph_Joestar

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theiceman085 wrote on 2023-03-22, 07:42:

What do you guys think about Radeon 9800pro for my needs.

It's faster than the GeForce 4 Ti4200, but slightly less compatible. Radeon cards don't support certain features like Table Fog and Paletted Textures which are used by some Win9x games. This isn't a huge issue and it doesn't seem to affect that many games, at least according to current findings.

With Win9x gaming, there is always a trade off between performance and compatibility when you start using more powerful GPUs. The GeForce 4 Ti cards are probably the most balanced in that regard, as they provide pretty good performance while retaining very solid backwards compatibility.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 6 of 11, by bloodem

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theiceman085 wrote on 2023-03-22, 07:42:

What do you guys think about Radeon 9800pro for my needs. I came across this card during my price research for the Geforce 4200ti. The Radeon card is bit more expensive than 4200 but the price gap is not big enough to make the Radeon card a no go.

Your 'needs' might be obvious to you, but they're not really obvious to the rest of us. 😁

Jokes aside, the Radeon 9800 PRO is a great card, it just has some limitations (lack of table fog / paletted textures support) which might or might not be important to you, depending on the games you play.
As a general rule, if you play older/early Win98 games, it's better to stick with a GeForce 4 Ti 4200. If, on the other hand, you want to play newer games, up to 2001/2002, then the Radeon 9800 will be awesome. This will be especially true if you prefer very high resolutions (1600 x 1200) with AA / AF.
That being said, the Radeon 9800 PRO will also work fine with quite a few older games, it's just that some might need a bit of tweaking to get things going, while others will simply not work (or look) properly.

Last edited by bloodem on 2023-03-22, 09:16. Edited 1 time in total.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 7 of 11, by theiceman085

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Thanks a lot for the further replies.

then Radeon is out of the question. It sure has some bennefits for more modern games but I am more into the earlier Win 98 games so features like Table fog and palleted textures are quite important for me. ( the 1997 to 2000 era).

Reply 8 of 11, by RandomStranger

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theiceman085 wrote on 2023-03-22, 08:54:

Thanks a lot for the further replies.

then Radeon is out of the question. It sure has some bennefits for more modern games but I am more into the earlier Win 98 games so features like Table fog and palleted textures are quite important for me. ( the 1997 to 2000 era).

To be fair, those features are nice to have, but their significance is blown way out of proportion. There are only a dozen or so games that support them and among them maybe a handful with any kind of significance. Driver, FF VII, FFVIII for paletted textures and Thief 2, Carmageddon 2 and NFS 3 and 4 for table fog.

We often have this itch to maximize compatibility in general with a certain era and overcomplicate things because of that or overpay for certain parts despite not practically benefiting from the added features. These features are only important if you actually plan to play those specific games that support it.

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Reply 9 of 11, by theiceman085

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@RandomStranger you got a point. It is really good advice not to overcomplicate stuff. The only game of the bunch you mentioned I want to try out would be Thief 2. I really enjoyed the first one back then but could never get into the second one. As soon as my rig is finished I will change that.

if that is the case I will still keep considering the 9700pro.

Reply 10 of 11, by Joseph_Joestar

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RandomStranger wrote on 2023-03-22, 09:34:

To be fair, those features are nice to have, but their significance is blown way out of proportion. There are only a dozen or so games that support them and among them maybe a handful with any kind of significance.

Of significance to whom is the question. Different people like different games.

If anyone had bothered to click the links that I provided above, they would see that the list of games is a bit longer than what you posted. We also don't know the full extent of games which use these features. The wiki only lists those that have been tested and confirmed to do so. Still, I will repeat that this isn't a big issue in my view, and some workarounds do exist for Radeon cards.

Ultimately, it's important to document things as thoroughly as we can, so that people are free to make a well informed decision.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 11 of 11, by bloodem

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theiceman085 wrote on 2023-03-22, 10:37:

if that is the case I will still keep considering the 9700pro.

Uhm... if this is actually a cheap & fully working 9700PRO (instead of the 9800PRO you previously mentioned), then don't even think about it. Just. Buy. It. Now. 😁

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k