frankmonk wrote on 2023-05-10, 19:10:

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-05-07, 10:49:

I m'not sure to understand what this jumper does, by default it's on 1-3,2-4 on both of my GA-5AX boards. Of course I don't know […]
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shevalier wrote on 2023-05-07, 09:27:

According to the manual, this is +3.3V system power.
In general, everything was powered from it in those days, starting from the memory and the chipset.
Again, no one is forcing you to use it.There is a jp11 jumper for that.

I m'not sure to understand what this jumper does, by default it's on 1-3,2-4 on both of my GA-5AX boards. Of course I don't know what previous owner did...

Does it mean that:
1-2,3-4 = use the 3.3V directly from the PSU
1-3,2-4 = convert 3.3V on the mainboard

Why would that be on 1-3,2-4 by default? Because some power supplies couldn't provide enough current on 3.3V? To have a more stable 3.3V than relying on what is provided by a crappy power supply?

Oh and I also see there is another jumper dealing with 3.3V, to basically over-volt it. Previous PCB versions of the GA-5AX don't have this jumper.

That's actually a good question. I'm also not sure which jumper setting would be optimal. I left it on default as well.

The one with least voltage drop and least noise is best.

A modern PSU (with) adjustable rails adjusted at the card might be best. Modern systems rely heavily on 3.3v so they probably will have a nice power quality. Though the distance difference between that regulator and the psu might make it all for naught with wire resistance allowing for less noise control at card.

Long story short, get an oscillascope on the card and test to find out.

Long story longer, it probably won’t matter unless you are overclocking the card. But that regulator might not like some cards and get really hot. So safest is probably to let the modern psu do it. So sorry, there are pros and cons. If you really want to know you need to investigate with meters and tools and analyze.

swaaye wrote on 2023-05-04, 03:50:

AngryByDefault wrote on 2023-05-03, 21:22:

Yet, as I mentioned, it seems an AGP Voodoo might get damaged or cause damage in this mainboard, so that was my point actually, what could be a nice but safe option in this scenario.

I've never actually considered that I suppose. Voodoo cards are usually the only AGP cards that are rock solid in Super 7 motherboards. I would certainly recommend against a GeForce 256 or GeForce 2. Not because they would necessarily explode the board, but because they probably won't work stably with VIA MVP3. I've done some of that experimentation in the past.

The thought is depressing though. Super 7 was crap. I had a VA 503 decades ago. I still have a ASUS P5A stored away but haven't used it in like 10 years. Slot A isn't all that much better.

It's the VIA chipset being your achilles heal, and not SS7 alone. VIA did a poor job with with the MVP3, where my P5A-B and MS-5169 Aladdin V based boards didn't have any problems with AGP card compatibility. Even though the GeForce2 is too much for my K6-2, I was able to use it with no hassles.

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-05-11, 02:06:

The one with least voltage drop and least noise is best. […]
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frankmonk wrote on 2023-05-10, 19:10:

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-05-07, 10:49:

I m'not sure to understand what this jumper does, by default it's on 1-3,2-4 on both of my GA-5AX boards. Of course I don't know […]
Show full quote

I m'not sure to understand what this jumper does, by default it's on 1-3,2-4 on both of my GA-5AX boards. Of course I don't know what previous owner did...

Does it mean that:
1-2,3-4 = use the 3.3V directly from the PSU
1-3,2-4 = convert 3.3V on the mainboard

Why would that be on 1-3,2-4 by default? Because some power supplies couldn't provide enough current on 3.3V? To have a more stable 3.3V than relying on what is provided by a crappy power supply?

Oh and I also see there is another jumper dealing with 3.3V, to basically over-volt it. Previous PCB versions of the GA-5AX don't have this jumper.

That's actually a good question. I'm also not sure which jumper setting would be optimal. I left it on default as well.

The one with least voltage drop and least noise is best.

A modern PSU (with) adjustable rails adjusted at the card might be best. Modern systems rely heavily on 3.3v so they probably will have a nice power quality. Though the distance difference between that regulator and the psu might make it all for naught with wire resistance allowing for less noise control at card.

Long story short, get an oscillascope on the card and test to find out.

Long story longer, it probably won’t matter unless you are overclocking the card. But that regulator might not like some cards and get really hot. So safest is probably to let the modern psu do it. So sorry, there are pros and cons. If you really want to know you need to investigate with meters and tools and analyze.

Thanks for the confirmation of what it actually does 😀 The system is perfectly stable with the jumpers set to let the PSU handle it and the motherboard is less hot in this configuration, so just for that I'll use this configuration 😀

Interesting, with setting 1-3,2-4 63°C, with setting 1-3,2-4 again 63°C, JP13 is set to 3.3V.

DundyTheCroc wrote on 2023-05-14, 21:47:

Interesting, with setting 1-3,2-4 63°C, with setting 1-3,2-4 again 63°C, JP13 is set to 3.3V.

Which GPU are you using?
Unfortunately I don't own a infrared thermometer so I can't really tell if it's getting to hot

frankmonk wrote on 2023-05-15, 20:32:

Which GPU are you using?
Unfortunately I don't own a infrared thermometer so I can't really tell if it's getting to hot

TNT2 125/150MHz core/memory.
Just for the test I removed JP11 jumpers at all and no change, the PC works, in 3DMark 2000 I get the same results, temperature rises to 75°C (today it is hotter at home).
AGP voltage regulator is LX8383A, min/typical 7.5/9.5 A at 3.3V, long term stability temperature 125°C.
So, LX8383A can give at least 25W, but maybe it need better cooling.

Dmetsys wrote on 2023-05-11, 02:46:

swaaye wrote on 2023-05-04, 03:50:

AngryByDefault wrote on 2023-05-03, 21:22:

Yet, as I mentioned, it seems an AGP Voodoo might get damaged or cause damage in this mainboard, so that was my point actually, what could be a nice but safe option in this scenario.

I've never actually considered that I suppose. Voodoo cards are usually the only AGP cards that are rock solid in Super 7 motherboards. I would certainly recommend against a GeForce 256 or GeForce 2. Not because they would necessarily explode the board, but because they probably won't work stably with VIA MVP3. I've done some of that experimentation in the past.

The thought is depressing though. Super 7 was crap. I had a VA 503 decades ago. I still have a ASUS P5A stored away but haven't used it in like 10 years. Slot A isn't all that much better.

It's the VIA chipset being your achilles heal, and not SS7 alone. VIA did a poor job with with the MVP3, where my P5A-B and MS-5169 Aladdin V based boards didn't have any problems with AGP card compatibility. Even though the GeForce2 is too much for my K6-2, I was able to use it with no hassles.

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board.
I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and i've had them be a nightmare.
Same is true for ALi boards, sometimes they are joy to use and sometimes they are a headache.

It's just early AGP in general to be honest, even some 440BX boards were exactly heaven to use with some early AGP cards.
Socket 7 just ups the ante.

The savage it came with, is probably the best card for the system. If you use win9x. Because the XP drivers of the savage4 are quite unstable.
If you want to use TNT1, use a very early driver, i recommend the driver version 2.x. The tnt2 m64 is basically worse than what a voodoo1 would make in that config, so i think you should avoid that.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-15, 21:27:

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board. I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and […]
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Dmetsys wrote on 2023-05-11, 02:46:

swaaye wrote on 2023-05-04, 03:50:

I've never actually considered that I suppose. Voodoo cards are usually the only AGP cards that are rock solid in Super 7 motherboards. I would certainly recommend against a GeForce 256 or GeForce 2. Not because they would necessarily explode the board, but because they probably won't work stably with VIA MVP3. I've done some of that experimentation in the past.

The thought is depressing though. Super 7 was crap. I had a VA 503 decades ago. I still have a ASUS P5A stored away but haven't used it in like 10 years. Slot A isn't all that much better.

It's the VIA chipset being your achilles heal, and not SS7 alone. VIA did a poor job with with the MVP3, where my P5A-B and MS-5169 Aladdin V based boards didn't have any problems with AGP card compatibility. Even though the GeForce2 is too much for my K6-2, I was able to use it with no hassles.

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board.
I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and i've had them be a nightmare.
Same is true for ALi boards, sometimes they are joy to use and sometimes they are a headache.

It's just early AGP in general to be honest, even some 440BX boards were exactly heaven to use with some early AGP cards.
Socket 7 just ups the ante.

Sure, BIOS implementation can go a long way into stability as well. I can only say that the stable MVP3 motherboards I've had were the EPoX MVP3* series. Most others were dogwater in comparison, the HOT-591P being one of the worst. To each their own.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-15, 21:27:

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board. I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and […]
Show full quote

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board.
I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and i've had them be a nightmare.
Same is true for ALi boards, sometimes they are joy to use and sometimes they are a headache.

It's just early AGP in general to be honest, even some 440BX boards were exactly heaven to use with some early AGP cards.
Socket 7 just ups the ante.

Sure, BIOS implementation can go a long way into stability as well. I can only say that the stable MVP3 motherboards I've had were the EPoX variants. Most others were dogwater in comparison, the HOT-591P being one of the worst. To each their own. That being said, nVidia card compatibility was a bane of the MVP3.

Dmetsys wrote on 2023-05-16, 15:19:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-15, 21:27:

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board. I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and […]
Show full quote

i don't think that it's that simple. It varies from board to board.
I've had some boards with MVP3 chips be perfectly easy, and i've had them be a nightmare.
Same is true for ALi boards, sometimes they are joy to use and sometimes they are a headache.

It's just early AGP in general to be honest, even some 440BX boards were exactly heaven to use with some early AGP cards.
Socket 7 just ups the ante.

Sure, BIOS implementation can go a long way into stability as well. I can only say that the stable MVP3 motherboards I've had were the EPoX variants. Most others were dogwater in comparison, the HOT-591P being one of the worst. To each their own. That being said, nVidia card compatibility was a bane of the MVP3.

I hear this a lot about MVP3 and nVidia, so I can't discount it.
However my experience has been way different. All of the nVidia cards that I have tried with three of my MVP3 boards have worked with very little fuss.
Not that I have a huge sample size, but I've tried in no particular order:
TNT Vanta and pros, three or four of them, recently tried two different Geforce 2 GTS cards,
about 5 different Geforce 4 MX4xx cards, two different FX5500 cards and they have all worked with no hassle.

That being said hardly none of my ATI cards have worked very well, Rage 128, Radeon 7200/7500, FireGL 8800, I have one of the Radeon Mobilty on a AGP card and it wouldn't work properly either.
I Always have issues with getting AGP acceleration to work.

We had two MVP 3 systems in the house at that time and neither had issues with any Nvidia based GPUs. One was a ATX gigabyte board and the other was a ATX Abit board those systems were both rock solid and got used heavily and had plenty of upgrades over their lifetimes.

It seems my OP was not set up to notify me of new replies and I was missing more than a few...

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-05-05, 12:50:

I started a project for adding power to agp slots […]
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I started a project for adding power to agp slots

Re: AGP Power Improver

Spoiler

Info

Currently, I’m kind letting it simmer simply because it is kinda a low interest, low priority idea. Also, I am kinda wondering if anyone is really sure if these issues are for sure a power problem. I personally don’t have any systems that need this currently. But if someone did perhaps they could hook up a scope to the card and prove that this is actually the problem. I’m kinda wondering if the idea of insufficient power is fundamentally an assumption and not a proven diagnosis. Anyway, that’s where that project is at. If more interest comes along that could revive it.

That is very interesting and I'm subscribing to the thread. I reckon, though, that i don't have the gear to help with the analisys.

-

Considering my board is known to have problems I will settle for something than won't put at risk cards that I value the most.

A GF2 will be my starting point, but I will likely try a couple more that are not too expensive, for the fun of it.

I just hope that if I come with a bad combination it will give me some warning and not just fry everything out of the blue. I guess we'll find out.

Great insights everyone, as usual. Thanks a lot.