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Geforce 6800 Ultra PCIe and Win98

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First post, by Frunzl

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Hi,

I have a crazy problem and would appreciate every tiny bit of help. It is really strange, so please bear with me.

I recently got my hands on a cheap Gainward 6800 Ultra PCIe (256 MB DDR3), so I thought this would be an excellent opportunity for my first Win98 build on PCIe. The mainboard I am using is an Asus P5Q Pro with a Core2Duo 8600.

Windows installation went uneventfully and I was able to install the modded Intel chipset (ICH10) drivers. At this point, I still had an exclamation mark for the SATA controller (Marvell 88SE6111) and write speeds were not ideal (6 MB/s max).

So, after trying for days to get the onboard SATA controller to work properly, I decided to go with a separate PCIe controller, which was recognized and installed fine immediately (now 200 MB/s write speed and AHCI mode thanks to R. Löw).

This was all before I attempted to install any graphics drivers. So I force-installed the AGP driver of version 77.72 (AFAIK there is no dedicated driver for the 6800 Ultra PCIe version, PLEASE correct me if I am wrong) and the system booted fine and ran 3DMark 99, 2000, 2001SE without any issues.

However.... my benchmark results are nowhere where they should be. For 2001SE, I am getting 14000 points, where I should be getting at least 25K, probably much more...

I then thought, maybe the PCIe SATA controller is interfering with the PCIe bus or the GPU itself somehow and removed it (leaving me with the slow onboard SATA speeds).

But when I remove the PCIe SATA controller, the GPU always goes to a black screen upon bootup. No amount of trying has helped, including around 5 Nvidia driver versions, forcing the 6800GS PCIe driver etc.

It is always the same, after (re-)installing the graphics driver, the machine boots into a black screen and the GPU fan slows down (the fan usually only slows down if the driver was correctly installed, but again: the screen remains pitch black)....

By the way, the board has two PCIe 16x and two PCIe 1x slots. The GPU only "works" (at reduced speed, as described) if the second 16x slot is occupied, but not if it is one of the 1x slots. There must be a connection.

I also considered that the low 3DMark results might be due to a CPU bottleneck, and indeed the scores remain identical all the way from 640x480 to 1600x1200. But, all separate CPU-benchmarks I ran indicate that the CPU runs totally fine, exactly how I would expect. So it really seems to be a bus limitation? I have no clue...

Again, any help is appreciated!

Last edited by Frunzl on 2023-07-15, 22:34. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 1 of 64, by The Serpent Rider

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At this point, it looks like you broke something in your Windows 98 install and it can't recover.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 2 of 64, by Frunzl

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Possibly, but I really wouldn't ask if I hadn't already done 3 clean reinstalls and around 20 image restores and so on...

I also think it's a software issue, probably the GPU drivers, but I already tried so many combinations...

Reply 3 of 64, by Frunzl

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Just tried another clean reinstall with a completely different (and much older) Promise PCI SATA 1 controller... no dice, everything is working apparently fine, but Benchmark scores are again 1/3 to 1/2 of expectations.

I give up... If anyone needs a cursed Asus P5Q Pro with a Core2Duo 8600, drop me a line.

Reply 4 of 64, by The Serpent Rider

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Might be an issue with 6800 Ultra itself. PCIe 6eForce 6800GT/Ultra use HSI bridge and internally work as AGP cards. Switching to 7xxx series or GeForce 6800GS might fix that.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 5 of 64, by Laser

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use the 71.84 driver, is the last good driver for win98/me , new drivers are very buggy for the 6 series
looks in the web for a file called 71.84_win9x_english.exe

btw. 3dmark 2001 is a very innacurate tool ,try 3d mark 2003 instead and compare results. you should be getting 11-12k points: defaults settings

Reply 6 of 64, by Frunzl

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Thanks for your suggestions! In the meantime, I rebuilt a totally different system using an Asrock 970 Pro3 R2.0 and my old Phenom II X6.... same results...

I tried all the drivers, incl. 71.84 all the way up to the modded 82.69 drivers, which supposedly include 6800 PCIe support. The archived Gainward website points to 61.72, which I cannot find unfortunately. If anyone happens to have this version, please post a link or send me a pm! The next best thing I found is 61.76, which does work. Oddly enough, it is one of the only versions, where the card is recognized and hasn't to be force-installed.

But, same result, only a fraction of the expected performance.

Nothing does the trick. It has to be the card... Big shame, I really like it. Possibly one of the rare Gainward "golden sample" GPUs (it is also factory clocked at 425 MHz).

Well, gonna try a 6800 GS and a 7950 GT in the coming weeks, but it still feels like a huge failure 😀

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Reply 9 of 64, by Laser

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agent_x007 wrote on 2023-07-21, 19:05:

"unnofficial" GF8 Win98 driver is snake oil. Never worked, and it never will.

which unnoficial drivers are you talking about ? I tested a geforce 8600gt on Winme and worked so I assume must work on win98 too
Im talking about this driver:

Tweaked Unofficial NVIDIA Display Driver 82.69 for Windows 98/98 SP1/98 SE/ME
Version 1.03
Modded by Maximus-Decim
12-22-2008
SUPPORTED VIDEO CARDS

NVIDIA GeForce2 Integrated GPU
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400
NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro
NVIDIA GeForce2 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce2 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce3
NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200
NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 4000
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440SE
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440SE with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 460
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4400
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5100
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200LE
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600XT
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700VE
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900XT
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900ZT
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5950 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5300
NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5750
NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5900
NVIDIA GeForce 6100
NVIDIA GeForce 6100 nForce 400
NVIDIA GeForce 6100 nForce 405
NVIDIA GeForce 6100 nForce 420
NVIDIA GeForce 6100 nForce 430
NVIDIA GeForce 6150
NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 6200
NVIDIA GeForce 6200 A-LE
NVIDIA GeForce 6200 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM)
NVIDIA GeForce 6200SE TurboCache(TM)
NVIDIA GeForce 6500
NVIDIA GeForce 6600
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 VE
NVIDIA GeForce 6610 XL
NVIDIA GeForce 6700 XL
NVIDIA GeForce 6800
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS/XT
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Series GPU
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 XE
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 XT
NVIDIA GeForce 7025
NVIDIA GeForce 7050 PV
NVIDIA GeForce 7100 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 SE
NVIDIA GeForce 7500 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 LE
NVIDIA GeForce 7650 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX v2
NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GT/GTO
NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GT AGP
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 v2
NVIDIA GeForce 8300 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce 9200
NVIDIA GeForce 9400
NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GS
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GSO
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2
NVIDIA Quadro2 MXR/EX
NVIDIA Quadro2 Pro
NVIDIA Quadro4 380 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 550 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 580 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 700 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 750 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 780 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 900 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro DCC
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1100
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500
NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3400/4400
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI
NVIDIA Quadro FX 350
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 X2
NVIDIA Quadro FX 500/FX 600
NVIDIA Quadro FX 540
NVIDIA Quadro FX 550
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600
NVIDIA Quadro FX 560
NVIDIA Quadro FX 700
NVIDIA Quadro NVS
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 210S
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 440
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 50 PCI
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 55/280 PCI
NVIDIA Quadro NVS with AGP8X
NVIDIA Quadro PCI-E Series

Reply 10 of 64, by The Serpent Rider

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Laser wrote on 2023-07-21, 12:07:

btw, for win98 also there unnoficial drivers for the geforce 8000 series

I will believe it when I see it. There was no driver model for Tesla generation of chips (GeForce 8800+) in Windows9x environment. So any attempts to create "tweaked" one is indeed snake oil. Unless it's made from scratch, like Nouveau driver.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 11 of 64, by Laser

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-07-23, 10:49:
Laser wrote on 2023-07-21, 12:07:

btw, for win98 also there unnoficial drivers for the geforce 8000 series

I will believe it when I see it. There was no driver model for Tesla generation of chips (GeForce 8800+) in Windows9x environment. So any attempts to create "tweaked" one is indeed snake oil. Unless it's made from scratch, like Nouveau driver.

the driver I posted works on a 8600gt /winme and is a 100% 3d driver, I remember testing maxpayne and rayman 2 with it
you can download such driver and get rid of the doubts

Reply 12 of 64, by The Serpent Rider

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Would you kindly provide us screenshots and video which can prove that 8600GT is indeed working under Windows 98/ME?

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2023-07-30, 13:50. Edited 1 time in total.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 13 of 64, by Warlord

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Laser wrote on 2023-07-23, 14:03:

you can download such driver and get rid of the doubts

If youre going to make a claim you'll have to back that up with evidence otherwise we asume you must of made a mistake.

Reply 14 of 64, by LSS10999

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Actually I'm struggling with getting video work correctly on my P5Q3 Deluxe which is similar to OP's P5Q Pro regarding hardware layout.

As for the disk performance issue, I'm not sure why your disks are that slow (6MB/s) on native (ICH10R) SATA ports. In my case, my SSDs are pretty fast during Win9x install as well as inside Win9x. I'm only using rloew's 48-bit LBA patch as well as the SATA patch, so I think you should be fine if you applied rloew's SATA patch correctly. I've no idea about the modded Intel chipset driver you mentioned.

My card is a Quadro FX 5500 (similar to 7950GT but with 1GB of RAM). With MDGx 82.69 driver I get a blank screen. With ZakMcKracken's 82.69 driver (though I need to manually mod the INF to add stuffs necessary for my card as ZMK driver doesn't have an entry for this one, and also to fix a mistake in the INF regarding workstation cards), I get working output, but it still has some unsolved issues.

- DXDiag reports about 250MB of RAM, while nVidia settings can see all the 1024MB. I think this is expected. Patched the driver using PATCHNVC but it made little difference. I don't want to touch my card's BIOS, however, so I haven't applied PTCHNVSZ.
- DirectDraw tests work fine.
- Only half of the textures on the spinning cube can be seen during Direct3D 7 test.
- Direct3D 8 test is even worse than Direct3D 7. A nearly totally black spinning cube.
- Direct3D 9 test is the only one that I can see a complete, error-free spinning cube.
- Still, I can only get up to 1280x1024 work correctly. I'm currently sticking with 1280x800 which is looking good enough on my monitor. Higher resolutions don't work -- either glitched or totally blank, and there's a chance I cannot recover in case of the latter. I think my monitor is to blame...

And back to OP's card... I think PCIe cards have a better chance to get output with the ZMK driver than with the MDGx driver.

Reply 15 of 64, by Laser

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while I still have the geforce 8600gt and is working very fine,I haven't a free hardisk right now to install winme or win98 to test such drivers again
you guys can test these drivers on your own hardware,then post here that I was trolling if you find something strange

btw,
as you can see in supported videocards even the geforce 9xxx series are suported making the geforce 9800 gx2 supposedly the fast video card for win98
however, I will not recommend the 98xx or the 88xx series to anyone because those cards are junk / those cards get too hot /waste too energy and end up damaged inevitably
instead I will recommend the 8600gt, 8600gts or 9600gt as the best/fast video cards for win98/me

Reply 16 of 64, by LSS10999

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Laser wrote on 2023-07-24, 08:21:
while I still have the geforce 8600gt and is working very fine,I haven't a free hardisk right now to install winme or win98 to t […]
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while I still have the geforce 8600gt and is working very fine,I haven't a free hardisk right now to install winme or win98 to test such drivers again
you guys can test these drivers on your own hardware,then post here that I was trolling if you find something strange

btw,
as you can see in supported videocards even the geforce 9xxx series are suported making the geforce 9800 gx2 supposedly the fast video card for win98
however, I will not recommend the 98xx or the 88xx series to anyone because those cards are junk / those cards get too hot /waste too energy and end up damaged inevitably
instead I will recommend the 8600gt, 8600gts or 9600gt as the best/fast video cards for win98/me

Uhhh... Can you explain how you managed to get CUDA cards work? Do you have a screenshot or benchmark?

No one ever managed to get CUDA cards working before so... well...

Reply 17 of 64, by Laser

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LSS10999 wrote on 2023-07-24, 08:53:

Uhhh... Can you explain how you managed to get CUDA cards work? Do you have a screenshot or benchmark?

No one ever managed to get CUDA cards working before so... well...

those drivers worked when I tested long time ago, however Im not really sure if they work 100% or if they have some issues/bugs
if you can't find a valid link in the web to download them,plz tell me and I will upload somewhere for you guys to test

Reply 18 of 64, by havli

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Laser wrote on 2023-07-24, 08:21:

you guys can test these drivers on your own hardware,then post here that I was trolling if you find something strange

I did, many years ago. Tested GF 8600 GT and 8800 GTS 320. The only thing I got was BSOD at boot.

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