I generally go by the simple rule. if the card has even & odd roms then it won't work in an 8 bit system.

That may be the general case, but it doesn't apply to the ATi cards.
I tested VGA Wonder 16 v3, various VGA Wonder+ cards and Graphics Ultra. They all had dual BIOS chips and worked fine in my 5160.

Although it's been over 25 years, I am quite certain my friend had the same V4 OEM VGA Wonder card working in his 5160...though perhaps not the same BIOS revision. Perhaps there is something else at play. In my experience if you drop a VGA Wonder card into an 8-bit slot, it should automatically detect that. If you have a system with 16-bit slots, you could always stick it in there, run VINSTALL to reprogram the EEPROM and stick it back into your 8088.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2023-08-07, 16:14:

That may be the general case, but it doesn't apply to the ATi cards.

Was going to mention the same thing. It's a similar case with the ET4000-based Diamond SpeedSTAR and SpeedSTAR 24 cards.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2023-08-07, 16:14:

That may be the general case, but it doesn't apply to the ATi cards. I tested VGA Wonder 16 v3, various VGA Wonder+ cards and G […]
Show full quote

That may be the general case, but it doesn't apply to the ATi cards.
I tested VGA Wonder 16 v3, various VGA Wonder+ cards and Graphics Ultra. They all had dual BIOS chips and worked fine in my 5160.

Although it's been over 25 years, I am quite certain my friend had the same V4 OEM VGA Wonder card working in his 5160...though perhaps not the same BIOS revision. Perhaps there is something else at play. In my experience if you drop a VGA Wonder card into an 8-bit slot, it should automatically detect that. If you have a system with 16-bit slots, you could always stick it in there, run VINSTALL to reprogram the EEPROM and stick it back into your 8088.

FYI, the 27C256 isn't electrically erasable. reprogramming won't work by running VINSTALL.

I'm not talking about the EPROM where the video BIOS code is stored. ATI cards have a separate EEPROM chip for user settings. It's usually a little 8 pin thing. Did anyone other than ATi do this?

copper wrote on 2023-08-07, 15:26:

I got a hold of an ATI VGA Wonder-16. It's labeled as such on the PCB, but it's a 1024 OEM edition so it's missing the bus mouse port. It has MDA and VGA connectors and no jumpers that I can see. The BIOS is labelled VGA 1024 V4-1.01.

I put it in my Leading Edge Model D 8088, connected it to a monitor, and disabled the onboard video, but nothing seems to happen with it except some POST beeps. I'm wondering if the card BIOS is bad, or the 1024 BIOS doesn't support 8 bit mode, or maybe I need to do something else to put it in 8 bit mode? Unfortunately right now I don't have any other ISA machines to test it in.

Any help appreciated.

Iam guessing you need the ATI config utility to set the card in 8 bit modus.

I had this to do on my ATI XL card with busmouse few years ago. Dont know how the utility called, but it should be on the original setup / driver disk.

It should load a program to setup the card, then it write it to the card, and you be able to use it.

weedeewee wrote on 2023-08-07, 21:10:

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2023-08-07, 16:14:

That may be the general case, but it doesn't apply to the ATi cards. I tested VGA Wonder 16 v3, various VGA Wonder+ cards and G […]
Show full quote

That may be the general case, but it doesn't apply to the ATi cards.
I tested VGA Wonder 16 v3, various VGA Wonder+ cards and Graphics Ultra. They all had dual BIOS chips and worked fine in my 5160.

Although it's been over 25 years, I am quite certain my friend had the same V4 OEM VGA Wonder card working in his 5160...though perhaps not the same BIOS revision. Perhaps there is something else at play. In my experience if you drop a VGA Wonder card into an 8-bit slot, it should automatically detect that. If you have a system with 16-bit slots, you could always stick it in there, run VINSTALL to reprogram the EEPROM and stick it back into your 8088.

FYI, the 27C256 isn't electrically erasable. reprogramming won't work by running VINSTALL.

Isnt there is program called ATICFG?

Robin4 wrote on 2023-08-08, 00:36:

Iam guessing you need the ATI config utility to set the card in 8 bit modus.

Can you do this from an 8 bit machine? I don't have any other functioning ISA machines right now.

I dont know you have to try

Are you plugged to the 15pin? I thought I had read that they used 9 pin for Bus Mouse also.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-08-08, 02:41:

Are you plugged to the 15pin? I thought I had read that they used 9 pin for Bus Mouse also.

You're right about that, Wikipedia says same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Wonder_series

My first 286 had an ATI VGA Wonder series and a bus mouse port on the motherboard.
But since it was the 90s, my father and me didn't have such a historic bus mouse at hand (the PC was dating back to '88).
That's why I remember it so vividly. The lack of a bus mouse forced me to use a Genius serial mouse for a while.

I'm 99% sure the bus mouse port is round and goes between the two dsubs.

If I run the configuration utility without the card installed, it won't start because it can't detect the card. If I install the card, I get garbled video (or none, if I disable onboard video), so I can't see what I'm doing to run the utility. 😒

Add an MDA/hercules card & monitor to the system so you can switch to the mda monitor and see what's going on. It might be a possibility if you have the gear & the software cooperates.

copper wrote on 2023-08-12, 05:11:

I'm 99% sure the bus mouse port is round and goes between the two dsubs.

On this card, yes, maybe. But my 286 PC from back then, with its VGA Wonder, had a DE-9 connector for sure.
Same goes for my Schneider Tower AT with Super EGA chip (on-board). It uses DE-9 for its strange bus mouse port, too. 🤷‍♂️

weedeewee wrote on 2023-08-12, 06:23:

Add an MDA/hercules card & monitor to the system so you can switch to the mda monitor and see what's going on.

The Leading Edge Model D has built-in Hercules so I did try that and get the garbled screen. I didn’t try it in CGA mode with a CGA monitor yet. Is there some special trick to disable the VGA card while leaving it installed?

I feel like I need a bench 486 with 16-bit ISA, PCI, and VLB to handle all testing situations.

copper wrote on 2023-08-12, 12:31:

weedeewee wrote on 2023-08-12, 06:23:

Add an MDA/hercules card & monitor to the system so you can switch to the mda monitor and see what's going on.

The Leading Edge Model D has built-in Hercules so I did try that and get the garbled screen. I didn’t try it in CGA mode with a CGA monitor yet. Is there some special trick to disable the VGA card while leaving it installed?

I feel like I need a bench 486 with 16-bit ISA, PCI, and VLB to handle all testing situations.

Fairly certain that cga won't work due to memory region overlaps.
Having the mda as primary should be as simple as setting the jumpers/dipswitches for video mode selection that most XT computers have.
If you know the system boots with the vga card inside, and the vga monitor and mda monitor is attached, then at the dos prompt entering MODE MONO should switch to the mda monitor.

actually you could try
mode co80
with just the ATI in, to see if it thinks it's got mono in the first place. If you get a prompt then, the problem is it's not realising it's got a color adapter for some reason.

Isn't mono & vga text mode in a different memory region ? can't recall, have to look it up.

I got a hold of a functioning (mostly) Packard Bell Force SX20 386 and tried the card in there. Still no video output.

The card doesn't seem completely dead, because if I leave integrated video enabled/connected on either machine, but install the ATI card, I get garbled text output from the integrated video. And if I disable the integrated video, and connect to the ATI, there appears to be some voltage on the VGA/MDA line, but I never get any image. RGBtoHDMI says "no sync" when connected to MDA.

I tried reseating all the socketed chips as well. I inspected the card more closely for damage but don't see anything that stands out. It does seem like it may have been stored in a humid environment.

Does anybody know if this card needs -5V on the ISA bus? My ATX PSU may not provide it; I can check.