VOGONS


Reply 20 of 25, by Jo22

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weedeewee wrote on 2023-08-12, 18:14:

Isn't mono & vga text mode in a different memory region ? can't recall, have to look it up.

Yes, I think that's right. MDA merely uses a 4KB "framebuffer" and doesn't get in the way.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s debuggers supported MDA as a secondary card for a status display (CodeView, SoftICE etc).
AutoCAD was same, I think. It had the text-based menu/status on MDA.

In practice, a generic Hercules Monochrome compatible graphics card (HGC) was used as a substitute for a real IBM MDA card.
- The generic, less popular terms for Hercules Monochrome was "MGA", by the way.
This was used to avoid copyright/trademark issues with Hercules, I think.

MDA.. Monochrome Display Adapter
MGA.. Monochrome Graphics Adapter
HGC.. Hercules Graphics Card

During power-on, Hercules cards do act like MDA cards and thus don't require special BIOS support.
The graphics memory is hidden at this point, it won't touch the CGA region, either at this point.

Hercules uses three framebuffer locations, essentially. MDA, one graphics page shared with CGA, another graphics page.

Hercules can use either graphics page and switch between both of them.
That's why CGA emulation is possible on XTs with Hercules cards, btw.
The Hercules/MGA card can both physically provide & read that CGA framebuffer.

Alternatively, it can als run in "half mode" and leave CGA alone. That way, both a CGA card and MGA card can be used simultaneously.

To enable half mode, an utility has to set the appropriate registers.
The graphics library MSHERC can be used for this (MSHERC /HALF).

This will also make applications see the Hercules Monochrome as an MGA (HGC) card.
Otherwise, applications like MSD or CheckIt! will only see a plain IBM MDA.

Games are an exception maybe.
They will usually ask the user for the video adapter, anyway, rather than trying to check for Hercules.

Speaking of CGA.. It's a funny dude. It needs 16KB of RAM, but the framebuffer is mirrored, thus occupying 32KB.

That's a bit sad, because with 32KB of physical memory, the CGA would be on par with Plantronics, memory wise.
Or if two independent CGA pages existed, the other one could be used for double-buffering.

Ok, ok, enough mansplaining for now.. ;)
(Just kidding. I sorta have a love/hate relationship with CGA. That's why I couldn't resist. Hope you don't mind.)

Edit: On modern DOS, "MODE MONO" will change DOS console to MDA, while "MODE CO80" will change to CGA.
That's useful for a dual monitor setup on an PC/XT.

On older versions, special utilities were needed (usually COM files of a few bytes in size).
They were found in Public Domain scene back then.
I think I have them somewhere..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 21 of 25, by BitWrangler

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copper wrote on 2023-08-16, 05:16:

Does anybody know if this card needs -5V on the ISA bus? My ATX PSU may not provide it; I can check.

The 100% certain way is to look at the edge connector -5V pin and if it's not connected to anything it doesn't need it, if it is it does.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 22 of 25, by copper

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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-08-16, 14:18:

The 100% certain way is to look at the edge connector -5V pin and if it's not connected to anything it doesn't need it, if it is it does.

5th pin from the bracket on the back is not connected.

Reply 23 of 25, by Jo22

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Speaking of ISA pin issues, some VGA cards do use the OSC pin (also used by CGA cards).

http://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-isa-osc-mystery/

It's probably not the issue here, but you never know.
That's why I mention it.

Edit: I also highly recommend replacing the intel 8086/8088 CPUs by their corresponding NEC models.
They are compatible with 80186/80286 real-mode instructions.
Could be useful to in certain tasks.

If I had made an 16-Bit ISA card back then, I would have taken advantage of all the AT features, which also includes 286 op codes for the VGA BIOS.

Edit: The Standard VGA driver of Windows 3.0 was incompatible with 8086/8088, too.
With a NEC V20/V30, it worked. There's at patch a vcfed now, which didn't exist in the 90s.

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/win … -8088-xt.35866/

Edit: I've double-checked..
Found this interesting paragraph.

"I have one of these cards. The VGA-16 user's guide indicates 5160 (IBM XT) compatibility,
and indicates how to force the card into 8-bit operation.
But whilst I can get my card to operate in a 16-bit slot,
I have been unable to get my card to operate in 8-bit mode (fitted to a 5150/5160/5170). Maybe my card is faulty.
Also, I have noted that the user's guide indicates an FCC ID of D2A62LTJWBJC,
whereas my card has the FCC ID of D2A62LVGA16.
Maybe I have a later version of the card,
in which 8-bit operation was dropped! "

Source: https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5160/vga/5160_vga.htm

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 24 of 25, by copper

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Thanks for the ideas. The card has 4 different discrete oscillators so I doubt it relies on OSC? I can check the pin. The FCC ID is EXM5RSVGAV4. I already have a V20 in the mail, so I can try it when I get it. Other cards worked in the 8 bit slots. I tried the VGA card in a 16 bit slot in a 386 and it didn't come up either.

The card edge looks worn but functional? But I'm not really sure. Maybe the video connectors themselves are corroded? I visually inspected the board but didn't see any broken traces, leaking caps, or anything beyond some oxidation.

Here are some more images of it. I could post higher-resolution ones offsite if it would help.

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