VOGONS


First post, by simbin

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Hello everyone - been a while since my last post. I just recently got back into retro builds and encountered a strange issue with a GeForce 6600 GT - circa 2004. The card displays an image with some garbled characters for a couple seconds, followed by the vertical green lines shown in the picture. I'm not noticing any suspect looking components. Should I bother recapping, or does it look more like a fried chip? Thanks

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WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC

Reply 3 of 19, by giantclam

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Curious .... the two 100uf/16v caps...(I'll just focus on 1)

Ycv8RVI.png

Looking at the PCB, seems like they should be surface mount types, but thru-hole capacitors have been bodged into place? (hard to say from images, some PCBs have provision for both types)

That'd be my clue that someone's already worked on the board (which is filthy btw and needs a good wash =)

As per other replies, could be gpu or ram ...but I would thoroughly clean and inspect the board first, lift/replace those 2 caps just to check, there might be other stuff I can't see here....

Reply 4 of 19, by simbin

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giantclam wrote on 2023-10-30, 23:31:
Curious .... the two 100uf/16v caps...(I'll just focus on 1) […]
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Curious .... the two 100uf/16v caps...(I'll just focus on 1)

Ycv8RVI.png

Looking at the PCB, seems like they should be surface mount types, but thru-hole capacitors have been bodged into place? (hard to say from images, some PCBs have provision for both types)

That'd be my clue that someone's already worked on the board (which is filthy btw and needs a good wash =)

As per other replies, could be gpu or ram ...but I would thoroughly clean and inspect the board first, lift/replace those 2 caps just to check, there might be other stuff I can't see here....

Ah, yes.. good eye. The card is provisioned for both thru-hole and surface mount types. It looks like those big blue caps are different from the ones in the original product image too. I like that it has the SLi READY logo, despite it being the AGP version of the card. 😀

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WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC

Reply 6 of 19, by simbin

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giantclam wrote on 2023-10-31, 23:34:
Could you take a pic of this area to sate my curiosity please? =) […]
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Could you take a pic of this area to sate my curiosity please? =)

mFrxc0I.png

Looks about the same to me, but let me know if you see anything interesting. 😉

Attachments

WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC

Reply 7 of 19, by schmatzler

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-10-30, 14:09:

Most likely the GPU is dead.

I think so too. The GeForce 6xxx series has problems with the underfill on the chip itself at higher temperatures (the underfill material is too soft, so the die basically desolders itself) and while you can temporarily fix that by heating up the chip with a hotair station, the problem will come back.

It's the same problem that causes the PS3 YLOD in earlier models and here's a lengthy video explaining it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=I0UMG3iVYZI

It might just be the RAM...if you're lucky. That's why I stay away from GeForce cards between 2006-2008. They're all ticking timebombs in my opinion.

Here's a writeup on the Badcaps forum about it, too, under the title "Nvidia Bumpgate":
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=94383

Chips affected are mostly from 2006-2008. MCP and GPUs are affected, both in laptops and desktops. Some articles list G86, G86A2 […]
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Chips affected are mostly from 2006-2008.
MCP and GPUs are affected, both in laptops and desktops.
Some articles list G86, G86A2, G84, C51, G72, G72M, G73, G72A3, MCP67 and NV42. But these aren't the only ones, some G9x and other MCPs were affected too.
That's some later GeForce 6000, almost all GeForce 7000, almost all GeForce 8000, some early GeForce 9000. Affected MCPs are MCP5x (northbridge only, not southbridge), MCP6x and early MCP7x.

And last but not least, the red ring of death of the early Xbox 360 models is caused by the same problem, even though that chip was made by ATI.
https://youtu.be/9lW82DhxjGY

"Windows 98's natural state is locked up"

Reply 8 of 19, by The Serpent Rider

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I think so too. The GeForce 6xxx series has problems with the underfill on the chip itself at higher temperatures (the underfill material is too soft, so the die basically desolders itself) and while you can temporarily fix that by heating up the chip with a hotair station, the problem will come back.

Doubtful. GeForce 6xxx/7xxx series on 110nm TSMC were manufactured during 2004-2005. People tend to forget that GeForce 6600/6800/7800 cards had really anemic coolers, which was also an issue that killed a lot of Radeon 9700/9800 cards.

And last but not least, the red ring of death of the early Xbox 360 models is caused by the same problem

Well, not exactly. Early Xbox 360 had exceptionally shitty cooling, because Microsoft rushed it and reaped what they sow.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 9 of 19, by giantclam

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simbin wrote on 2023-11-01, 14:44:

Looks about the same to me, but let me know if you see anything interesting. 😉

Thanks, I was mostly interested to see if Q16 was missing, or a no-stuff .... looks like the latter =/

Reply 10 of 19, by chrismeyer6

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My money is on a bad ram chip or a ram chip that needs to be reballed. What you can do is with the system on push on the different ram chips to see if the lines either disappear or change.

Reply 11 of 19, by schmatzler

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-11-02, 04:54:

Well, not exactly. Early Xbox 360 had exceptionally shitty cooling, because Microsoft rushed it and reaped what they sow.

The evidence suggests otherwise, as linked in my post.
I mean, Microsoft even admitted the problem was caused by the underfill (although worded a little weird) in their own retrospective video.

But you're free to believe what you want, of course. It's all a little ambiguous mysterious and I doubt Nvidia/AMD will ever tell us the whole truth about their GPU failures.

"Windows 98's natural state is locked up"

Reply 12 of 19, by The Serpent Rider

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I trust Felix video more. Microsoft were acting like they didn't knew how FCPGA chips work. Early Xbox 360 revisions were pushing thermal stress a bit too far. And ATi had no major issues with Radeon X1800/X1900 series, despite been manufactured at the same time period.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2023-11-03, 16:18. Edited 2 times in total.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 13 of 19, by simbin

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schmatzler wrote on 2023-11-02, 02:11:

It's the same problem that causes the PS3 YLOD in earlier models

Hopefully 110nm NV43 chips aren't affected. I know the 90nm RSX chips had this issue. I recently spent quite a bit on a "Frankenstein PS3" (CECHA with a replacement 40nm RSX). As nostalgic as I am for this card, I won't be doing that again.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-11-02, 04:54:

Doubtful. GeForce 6xxx/7xxx series on 110nm TSMC were manufactured during 2004-2005. People tend to forget that GeForce 6600/6800/7800 cards had really anemic coolers, which was also an issue that killed a lot of Radeon 9700/9800 cards.

I ordered another XFX 6600 GT, and interestingly, it has the beefier cooler found on PCIe versions of the card. The faulty one will probably just go in my junk bin for now.

WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC

Reply 14 of 19, by simbin

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The new card arrived today. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but wanted to share a quick comparison pic. I found it interesting that one of the capacitor locations isn't even populated on the new one.

Attachments

WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC

Reply 15 of 19, by pentiumspeed

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Broken off.

Extract one from your broken video card and solder it in. That location can be either SMT or through hole.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 16 of 19, by simbin

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-11-04, 22:47:

Broken off.

Extract one from your broken video card and solder it in. That location can be either SMT or through hole.

Cheers,

Victory!

Attachments

WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC

Reply 17 of 19, by pentiumspeed

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simbin wrote on 2023-11-08, 17:26:
pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-11-04, 22:47:

Broken off.

Extract one from your broken video card and solder it in. That location can be either SMT or through hole.

Cheers,

Victory!

Yay! Great job!

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 19 of 19, by simbin

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-11-11, 01:36:

What uses you are going to with this 6600 GT, I know this is mid range, kind of low end?

Cheers,

Purely for nostalgia purposes. I've been gradually piecing together some of my older builds that I had gotten rid of.

WIP: 486DX2/66, 16MB FastPage RAM, TsengLabs ET4000 VLB
Check out my Retro-Ghetto build (2016 Update) 😀
Commodore 128D, iBook G3 "Clamshell"
3DO M2, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, N64, GBC