^ just so you know, my tests are with a SB16 CT-2230 + DB-50XG and a mpu401at+CM32L , GM stuff are always tested with the DB-50XG ...
Hopefully soon I'll get my MU80 and retire the DB-50XG...

@keropi
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id= … 960511305586374

Try this Hocus build. UART handler changed, more friendly.

^ will check and report later, thanks!

tikalat wrote:

@keropi
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id= … 960511305586374

Try this Hocus build. UART handler changed, more friendly.

doesn't work, you get the apogee jingle and 1 sec of menu music, then hanging note forever, won't even start if you play a game.
On the other hand it no longer complains the 2nd time you run it about music hardware but you do get the same behavior. It seems it resets upon exit?

Does reset on exit. One more try (new idea + src):
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id= … 415906093435674

Otherwise I pass on this. Blackthorne is unsolvable by me (cpu speed issue).

tikalat wrote:

Does reset on exit. One more try (new idea + src):
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id= … 415906093435674

Otherwise I pass on this. Blackthorne is unsolvable by me (cpu speed issue).

this one works fine as far as I can tell 😊
no music cuts, tried saving/loading different episodes - music always plays
no more music card error if you exit the game and run in again
great job! thanks!

Thanks. Hocus Pocus v2 updated (basically tinyupload version).
Re: Apogee / 3D Realms - sound driver hacking

Do you think this patch could be updated to ensure that Fl. Keyclick is automatically selected instead of Breath Noise for those Roland devices (anything after the early SC-55s) for those songs that use the Fl. Keyclick sample?

Discussion here : To the Roland guys: SC88 or SC55mkII?

I had the same idea; was reluctant to ask because after all this is still just speculation. We can't be 100% certain without contacting the composer. But OK, guess a patch wouldn't hurt because it's still up to the individual user.

It would be not for "Roland devices" but simply for all GM devices though. And it should be noted that the same thing applies for Doom II MAP30: Icon of Sin. Those are the games that are known for this so far but if someone were to dig deeper there could be more.

d1stortion wrote:

I had the same idea; was reluctant to ask because after all this is still just speculation. We can't be 100% certain without contacting the composer. But OK, guess a patch wouldn't hurt because it's still up to the individual user.

It would be not for "Roland devices" but simply for all GM devices though. And it should be noted that the same thing applies for Doom II MAP30: Icon of Sin. Those are the games that are known for this so far but if someone were to dig deeper there could be more.

It is sort of a matter of convenience for those of us who own GM-compatible SC-55 units, as we can easily change the instrument with the front control panel buttons. A sysex or midi file with the right commands would work for those of us without a device with front control panel buttons. Outside of a Roland GS device and those devices that emulate them, there is no guarantee that another company's device would support Fl. Keyclick at PC#121, CC#01

what is the difference in "icon of sin" song?

edit: now I see... for me it's another example that the "breath noise" is just wrong, it's completely out of place 🤣

Trying to get all caught up.

Do you think this patch could be updated to ensure that Fl. Keyclick is automatically selected instead of Breath Noise for those Roland devices (anything after the early SC-55s) for those songs that use the Fl. Keyclick sample?

So 'Breath Noise' is being used in Duke3D (+ Doom)? And that should be program mapped to Fl. Keyclick?

If so, that wouldn't be hard other than making space for it. Room is tight in some of these drivers.

I'm still slowly reading the other enlightening thread. 😀

edit:
Oh. Okay. So just find the tracks and change program #s in MIDI files? Yeah, that'll work.

So far it's ''Tier Drops'' and ''Launch Facility''? I can also look to edit that Doom II track also - unofficial sound hack '''enhancement'''. Okay by me. 😀

Answer to this+your other post:

Would you theorize that all of those games were composed for the non-GM SC-55, then? What is it with the CTF "usage" in certain games anyway? I think so far the consensus was that the drivers were shitty and CTF is the "saving grace". If they would have implemented proper bank selecting for each patch change this wouldn't be needed at all, wouldn't it...?

And yeah it's simply incredible that none of this was uncovered for so long. The next best thing was just 3D Realms acknowleding the Creative issues in the Shadow Warrior helpfile. Maybe if we dig in newsgroups and other sources from the time there would be some hints to the MIDI issues, but it's certainly nothing that was/is widely known.

Duke Nukem 3D updated:
- THECALL + SPOOK - use Flute Key Click (BANK 01) on mkII devices or better.
- New patcher that works on multiple Duke3D exe

Apogee / 3D Realms - sound driver hacking

Would you theorize that all of those games were composed for the non-GM SC-55, then? What is it with the CTF "usage" in certain games anyway? I think so far the consensus was that the drivers were shitty and CTF is the "saving grace". If they would have implemented proper bank selecting for each patch change this wouldn't be needed at all, wouldn't it...?

Maybe / not.

Xeen = has to use mk1 for sfx ctf
Duke3D = toss-up of mk1 or mk2. Preferable that it probably works better on mk1 due to any potential ctf issues. Bank changes created some awful playback without GS reset fix every track.

Others = need to check and guess. Don't suppose many use Breath Noise anyway.

I wonder how many composers first jumped on mk1 at release. Then sometime later having access to higher quality models, decided to pass on upgrading to mk2, 88? Hence many tracks would be 55 GS?

Although new Duke3D tracks are definitely more haunting with GS Key Clicks >>>> Breath Noise.

I suppose CTF is musician:
1) didn't want it to work on non-GS device?
2) used it as pseudo-documentation, to separate tracks,segments
3) careless
4) didn't clean up because it worked
5) limited hardware development suite
6) undocumented = be clever and abuse it
7) who really has a GS anyway? 1 in 100?
😎 *shrug*

Just to clarify this, since I think you understood it a bit wrong: there are SC-55 units with a GM logo as well, which behave identical to a mkII in this case 😉 the exact differences in the arrangement are Breath Noise at PC#122, Fl. Keyclick at PC#122 CC0#1, plus actually one new tone, Sine Wave on PC#81, CC0#8. There are so few games that even use variation tones save for drums, so the chances of any game using Sine Wave are slim... but never say never 🤣

Just to clarify this, since I think you understood it a bit wrong: there are SC-55 units with a GM logo as well, which behave identical to a mkII in this case 😉

Yeow! Thanks - didn't know that. Will update faulty documentation. 😀

In that case........ it would be harder to tell who used what unit then. Both SC-55 mk1 have CTF ability, so it's down to the skill of trained audiophiles around here. 😉

the exact differences in the arrangement are Breath Noise at PC#122, Fl. Keyclick at PC#122 CC0#1, plus actually one new tone, Sine Wave on PC#81, CC0#8. There are so few games that even use variation tones save for drums, so the chances of any game using Sine Wave are slim... but never say never 🤣

Thanks - check for that too. Time to start doc'ing everything then.
- For Duke3D, there's strong plurarity of votes for Keyclick

Todo:
- Blood - Pestis (main theme)
- Descent 1/2 - triggers lots of hits (do that next)

how do you check the blood midi versions posted above? tried with mfplay but I get the most boring music ever 😁

They work fine for me in TMIDI Player. There is not much to "check" though, it's just the composition itself that is quite repetitive...

Funnily enough it seems that on channel 2 stuff is being played, but the volume is set to zero 🤣

Descent - using test soundtrack:
http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action … pmod;dl=item116

Modified level 14 to use Fl Click.

can't decide on the descent1 track, - unless I am hearing things wrong - the click gives power to drums but the noiz is "futuristic" ...
I would choose clicks over noiz