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First post, by avatar_58

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I'll put this here since the answer could be either.

Is it better to play System Shock via vdmsound or dosbox? Assuming of course one can run it full speed in dosbox. I'm just wondering because I've never played it before, and whether or not I'm going to encounter game stopping problems relating to either choice.

With dosbox I got 320 to run perfectly and, assuming its compatible, I could play that through.

However with vdmsound I could get the higher resolutions working without having to worry about speed loss. However are there any concerns about compatibility with vdmsound? Some games simply have issues so I just want to be sure before I get used to a high resolution and then have to switch back to dosbox 20% of the way through.

Let me know, as this game (along with SS2) seems to be a must play.

If you have tips on getting the higher resolutions going in dosbox, let me know because that would end the decision for me right there 😉

Reply 1 of 6, by DosFreak

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I'm not aware of any problems with running SS using VDMSound but you'd probably be better off asking in the TLG forums.

I too want to play System Shock but I'm not going to bother with NTVDM so I'm just waiting for DosBox improvements and processor speed improvements so that I can at least play SS in 640x480. As soon as I get my hands on a Core 2 Duo I'd like to see what the performance is like.

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Reply 2 of 6, by dvwjr

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Pending DosFreak's CoreDuo investigation here are the trade-offs as I see them:

NTVDM:
Pros:
1.) Can do up to Video up to 800x600 very fast; 1024x768 slightly slower.
2.) The use of audio 'music card' selection of General MIDI allows the Direct Music MIDI sub-system of WinXP to use another thread external to the NTVDM's threads to handle this task.
3.) VDM Sound v2.1.0 handles the task of emulating a SB16 quite well in-game - only fails to give good sound during Intro Video cutscene digital output.
4.) Can use Yamaha MIDI softsynth S-YXG50 (v4.23.14 WDM) instead of Microsoft/Roland General MIDI softsynth.

Cons:
1.) Must use patched VGA.SYS for NVIDIA video adapters to get beyond VESA mode 0x101 (640x480x256color) and find way to prevent the WinXP file-protection system from restoring original VGA.SYS file.
2.) Limited to General MIDI as 'music' soundcard selction and the native WinXP SoundBlaster 2.0 or VDM Sound SB16 'digital' soundcard emulations.
3.) Must use MOUSE2KV.EXE to execute CDSHOCK.EXE with parameters properly set for desired playing resolution. Since Mouse2Kv is not dynamic, this causes problems with Mouse positioning when switching back to basic 320x200 resolution when using AutoMap function and when switching back from 320x200 to VESA 0x100 or 0x101 modes. Must position Mouse at co-ordinates 0,0 so no crash.
4.) The 320x400 Mode 'X' resolution variant very unstable in NTVDM environment. Crashes much of the time. Not really usable.
5.) Use of BIOS supported VESA 2.0 or 3.0 modes usually limited to 60Hz refresh - problem on CRTs, not on LCDs. Must hack BIOS to support >60Hz on most modern Video adapters.

Dosbox v0.65
Pros:
1.) Video at 320x200 guaranteed to work on emulated S3 video adapter. Can use scalers to help with lo-res output. Speed is good on fast PCs. Possiblity of hardware line-doubling on certain Dosbox builds. Refresh rate at native CRT/LCD rate unlike NTVDM.
2.) Audio selections more varied than NTVDM choices. Very good SBPRO 1 or SB16 emulation stereo emulation- no breakups. Can use same WinXP Direct Music MIDI or Yamaha MIDI as can the NTVDM solution.
3.) Only solution for being able to enjoy the Gravis Ultrasound specific customisations made by LookingGlass for SYSTEM SHOCK. Problem is lack of documentation on how to setup Gravis Ultrasound. Formal support was removed just before shipment of CD-enhanced version since the MILES Ultra.mdi and Ultra.dig drivers files were not ready. The included UMID files (which would required software TSR UltraMID) don't work. Possible to patch around driver names - then need undocumented CUSTOM.GUS file for use of 14 LookingGlass generated custom Gravis instrument patches.
4.) No problems with Mouse in any supported VGA or VESA video mode.

Cons:
1.) Current AMD and Intel processor speeds limit Video resolution to 320x200 for playable speed with S3 emulation. Other video resolutions operate in visible slow motion...
2.) Single threading model has resourse intensive audio emulation occasionally impacts on-screen action. Much of the blame might be on the MILES drivers which take a bit too much time as they are called as an ISR with interrupts disabled for the duration with some drivers.
3.) Hypertheaded INTEL processors usually require setting processor affinity in WinXP for Dosbox to a single processor - otherwise the WinXP dispatcher may switch virtual CPUs and you get an occasional 'hiccup' when pushing the CPU usage to high levels for performance in Dosbox. Might be similar on dual-core CPUs...
4.) Seems that Dosbox v0.65 using CORE=normal more stable than dynamic - results mixed. Lots of self-modifying code in SYSTEM SHOCK executable.

If CPUs get fast enough - Doxbox is your answer. To play in the newly unlocked 800x600 and 1024x768 (with 1280x1024 possible) you have to use the NTVDM solution.

For comparisons of the use of various soundcards for SYSTEM SHOCK (via AVI streaming or downloads), see my entries on this thread over on TTLG forums. Used Dosbox v0.65 soundcard emulation and real soundcards for comparisons in the AVI files.

Just my view,

dvwjr

Reply 3 of 6, by avatar_58

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I used a guide on the TLLG forums on managed to get it working with VDMSound quite nicely. Unless I can manage to get dosbox working a little faster I'll probably play it this way for now. 😀

Reply 4 of 6, by Great Hierophant

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There is always a third solution, one I am going to use not only for System Shock but for Tomb Raider, Quake and similar games. Use a machine with Windows 98 or lower, but with a reasonably fast PC (200-500MHz). You may not be able to unlock the higher resolution modes, but you can get it working in either Windows or DOS. It will run smoothly and can use real sound cards.

On my Athlon FX-55, the 320x400 mode was fast enough to work. The difference between that mode and the 640x400 mode is requiring double performance and performance squared.

Reply 5 of 6, by DosFreak

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In my case older machines are not the solution since I don't want to worry about upkeep/space of older machines and constantly worrying wether I won't be able to play the games or not.

Seeing as how SS runs fine @ 640x480 on an E660 and DosBox emulation continues to improve, not too far from now an older machine will be completely unnecessary.

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Reply 6 of 6, by ripa

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dvwjr wrote:

1.) Must use patched VGA.SYS for NVIDIA video adapters to get beyond VESA mode 0x101 (640x480x256color) and find way to prevent the WinXP file-protection system from restoring original VGA.SYS file.
3.) Must use MOUSE2KV.EXE to execute CDSHOCK.EXE with parameters properly set for desired playing resolution. Since Mouse2Kv is not dynamic, this causes problems with Mouse positioning when switching back to basic 320x200 resolution when using AutoMap function and when switching back from 320x200 to VESA 0x100 or 0x101 modes. Must position Mouse at co-ordinates 0,0 so no crash.
5.) Use of BIOS supported VESA 2.0 or 3.0 modes usually limited to 60Hz refresh - problem on CRTs, not on LCDs. Must hack BIOS to support >60Hz on most modern Video adapters.

Here's an awesome solution: dege's dgvesa (comes with dgVoodoo)! It kills two (even three?) birds with one stone:
1. refresh rate is no longer restricted (you can even run SS in windowed mode if you want)
2. mouse2kv.exe is no longer needed
(3. I'm not sure about this since I already patched vga.sys, but patching probably isn't required with dgvesa)

System Shock runs perfectly with VDMSound + dgvesa on my system. You can follow the directions at http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69578& to get System Shock working. Just put dgvoodoo 1.40+ into the System Shock directory, configure it with dgVoodooSetup.exe, and run dgvesa.com before cdshock.exe in a batch file, ignoring mouse2kv.exe completely. I just tried a fresh System Shock install and found out that it crashed if I used dgvesa.com. The solution is to run System Shock without it first, create a new game, set it to a high resolution mode, save it, then restart System Shock with dgvesa.com, and finally Continue from the savegame instead of starting a new game. System Shock perfectedness! 😲