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First post, by Great Hierophant

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While Ultima 7 and Serpent Isle are classics, they are extremely difficult when it comes to memory. They will not run if an Expanded Memory Manager like EMM386.EXE or QEMM.SYS is loaded, even if the "NOEMS" parameter is used.

Ultima 7 requires the following amount of Conventional Memory to Run:
Roland MT-32/LAPC-I (music) and Sound Blaster Pro (speech): 535K
Sound Blaster Pro (music and speech): 548K

Serpent Isle requires the following amount of Conventional Memory to Run:
Roland MT-32/LAPC-I (music) and Sound Blaster Pro (speech): 563K
Sound Blaster Pro (music and speech): 573K

Fortunately these games require HIMEM.SYS to run, this grants DOS access to the High Memory Area, reducing the Conventional Memory Burden from 75K to 25K. It also allows the game to access the Extended Memory Area (in its own peculiar way.)

The unfortunate side is without an Expanded Memory Manager loaded, there is no access to the Upper Memory Area. Typically, this can add anywhere from 112K to 208K, depending on the system. The CD ROM driver and MSCDEX can inhabit this area, as can mouse and sound card drivers.

Without UMA, the situation becomes grim:
MSDOS 25K
COMMAND.COM 10K
OAKCDROM.SYS 35K
MSCDEX.EXE 22K
MOUSE.COM 22K

(These program sizes are from Win98's DOS 7.10)

In this configuration, the user only has 522K, only enough to get Ultima 7 running without sound. I would conclude in order to run these games with sound, a user either had to avoid loading the device drivers to get his CD-ROM working in DOS or use a boot disk. This raises an eyebrow when you consider that for the compilation releases, he had to install the games from a CD!

Now, was it truly hopeless back in the day? Modern programs can help us avoid the memory crunch to an extent, but what could someone do about this 15 years ago?

Reply 2 of 11, by eL_PuSHeR

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There are mice and cd-rom drivers that take up less space that those you mentioned.

Intel i7 5960X
Gigabye GA-X99-Gaming 5
8 GB DDR4 (2100)
8 GB GeForce GTX 1070 G1 Gaming (Gigabyte)

Reply 3 of 11, by DosFreak

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and

Jemm386
http://www.japheth.de/Jemm386.html

Japeth's Himem
http://www.japheth.de/

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Reply 4 of 11, by wd

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His point is about what you did back then to get it working at all
(when no jemm/cutemouse/whatever was available).

Think there were some mouse drivers that required much less
than 22k, maybe even older msmouse versions. Also is the
cdrom needed (cdaudio)?

Reply 5 of 11, by Great Hierophant

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Ctmouse eliminates the mouse driver problem.
Could you direct me to a smaller replacement for OAKCDROM.SYS? The benefit of using that driver is that it is generic and compatible with pretty much everything. But it is huge. Also, what about MSCDEX?

Reply 6 of 11, by eL_PuSHeR

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VIDE-CDD.SYS takes up less memory than OAK one and I never had problems with it.

FreeDOS SHSUCDX (an MSCDEX replacement) takes up only 6.5KB for each drive. Never tried myself.

Intel i7 5960X
Gigabye GA-X99-Gaming 5
8 GB DDR4 (2100)
8 GB GeForce GTX 1070 G1 Gaming (Gigabyte)

Reply 7 of 11, by DosFreak

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wd wrote:

His point is about what you did back then to get it working at all
(when no jemm/cutemouse/whatever was available).

heh. I think the MS-DOS 7.10 statement in his post is what got me. He should really be using 6.22 if we are going with what was available. Although I guess since 6.22 wasn't released until June '94 he should probably be using MS-DOS 5.0/6.0. 😀

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Reply 10 of 11, by Great Hierophant

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I don't suppose it will let you get away with running UMBPCI, will it?

I had no idea what that program did (allows access to UMA through HIMEM), but now I know and a lot of people apparently have used it and U7/SI in harmony.

Reply 11 of 11, by ariqu

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To my knowledge, the CD version (Complete Ultima 7, of EA Classics, right?) wasn't released until a few years later, after the floppies first came out. I think it would be more like 13 years ago.

1994 meant DOS 6 or 6.22, and maybe Windows 3.1 if it even matters. I know I know I installed it, found it complaining about RAM, and started eliminating TSRs from startup and tweaking options in HIMEM until I got it running. I made a separate configuration to load those items with the DOS boot configuration menu through the config.sys and autoexec.bat.

But, I don't see why you'd even need a cdrom driver loaded to run the game. All the CD had was an installer that unzipped(ULTIMA7.ZIP and SERPENT.ZIP) one or both of the games to the hard drive. You could unzip the games yourself if you knew the zips were there. The games had copy protection built into the game that did not look for the CD. They really couldn't have without major recoding as they initially came out on floppies.