Originally posted by ffhighwind It seems there is not enough standard memory available to run the game. Even if you have plenty […]
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Originally posted by ffhighwind It seems there is not enough standard memory available to run the game.
Even if you have plenty of high memory, you need to have at least about 597Kb of free low memory.
Low memory available: 583K
Requested memory: 597K

Uh-oh. That's not good. IIRC, this needs low-level CD-ROM access, EMS memory, and uses "Protected Mode" as well.

So the question is, how to free up more base memory...Hrmm.

11. Video mode:
Still don't understand this but I'll take a guess that it's VGA.

What I've read has been unclear. I've seen both VGA and SVGA. Will try to find my CD's and test this out.

I found 2 contradicting reviews with the system requirements. So I guess you're right, but I don't have the box so I'm not sure where to look.
The requirements are listed on the bottom of both of the sites.

http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/DragonLo … DragonLore.shtm
(this one shows SVGA)

http://www.ggcentral.net/d8.htm
(this one shows VGA for DL1, it also gives the mac requirements that I don't need and requirements for DL2)

What's IIRC and what's "protected mode"?

acronym finder for the first question. Protected mode is a non-real-mode. 😜 (Yeah, I can't remember technicality, heh)

If I recall correctly or if I remember correctly... gotcha...

Protect or non-real-mode must mean "safe mode"? Still don't really get it...

Originally posted by ffhighwind Protect or non-real-mode must mean "safe mode"? Still don't really get it...

It's the opposite of Real-mode. IIRC, real-mode was a more direct way of using the processor (less use of the OS was involved). This gave it the advantage of being faster, but the disadvantage of being less stable (it didn't handle errors very well).

It gave way to Protected Mode. The only reason I brought it up was that it keeps DosBox from being a solution as it doesn't have protected-mode support yet. It will in the next release, but it won't have SVGA/VESA support.

And, of course, I can't find my "Dragon Lore CD's" to troubleshoot. In the meantime:

Create a file named GO.BAT and edit it to contain the single command:

MEM /C >VDMSMEM.TXT

then run it with VDMSound (right-click and choose Run with VDMS), it should create a text file called VDMSMEM.TXT and report something like the following:

Conventional Memory :

Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex
------------- --------------------- -------------
MSDOS 13184 ( 12.9K) 3380
KBD 3296 ( 3.2K) CE0
EMM 176 ( 0.2K) B0
HIMEM 1248 ( 1.2K) 4E0
COMMAND 3152 ( 3.1K) C50
FREE 112 ( 0.1K) 70
FREE 633984 (619.1K) 9AC80

Total FREE : 634096 (619.2K)

Upper Memory :

Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex
------------- --------------------- -------------
SYSTEM 180208 (176.0K) 2BFF0
MOUSE 12528 ( 12.2K) 30F0
DOSX 34720 ( 33.9K) 87A0
FREE 256 ( 0.3K) 100
FREE 34336 ( 33.5K) 8620

Total FREE : 34592 ( 33.8K)

Total bytes available to programs (Conventional+Upper) : 668688 (653.0K)
Largest executable program size : 633712 (618.9K)
Largest available upper memory block : 34336 ( 33.5K)

4194304 bytes total EMS memory
4194304 bytes free EMS memory

20971520 bytes total contiguous extended memory
0 bytes available contiguous extended memory
16628736 bytes available XMS memory
MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area

Past your results here. You might end up having to shut off some motherboard devices into order to create more "Upper Memory".

ffhighwind wrote:

Protect or non-real-mode must mean "safe mode"? Still don't really get it...

No, not even close.

"Safe mode" is a term used by Windows 9x/Me/2000/XP to identify a boot-time option that forces the OS to load only a few device drivers and services, in order to present a minimal working environment when you need to troubleshoot your Windows installation.

Real mode and protected mode are the tehcnical names of the operating modes of Intel x86 CPUs. Back in the '80s the original 8086 CPU had only 16-bit instructions and a segment+offset memory model that alowed it to access up to 1MB of physical memory. When IBM created the PC, they decided to have up to 640kB of RAM, leaving the later 384kB of memory space to the system ROM and additional ROM from expansion cards.

With the introduction of the 386 processor a new, flat memory model that supported up to 4GB for virtual memory space. This new operating mode (and its associated instructions) is called "protected mode". Therefore, protected-mode games are games that rely on specific instructions only found on 386 and newer processors and won't run on 8086 ou 80286 computers.

The relevance of this information for old games is that protected-mode games can't (yet) be run under DosBox, a very good emulator for playing old (real mode) PC games that solves many of the memory, video and sound issues for old games under Windows 2000/XP.

Regards,

MajorGrubert: I don't know much on computer history, and I'm not sure if I really understand any of what you just told me. Pretty much what I got out of that is what "safe mode" is, and I kind of knew what it did. It limited the "working environment" and made startup quick and only loaded the most basic desktop it could discluding files and folders (and don't start telling me I'm wrong please because I don't know if what I said really is a perfect definition).

I did have this game run on a 386 before... so I'm guessing what you mean is that this game is a "protected-mode" game because it was made for a 386. Protected mode games require either more virtual memory than the later models or

protected-mode games are games that rely on specific instructions only found on 386 and newer processors and won't run on 8086 ou 80286 computers.

Whoa hold on a second, "and newer processors"? My processor is definitely newer than a 386, read the very top post with my computer specs. So, what you're telling me was really that if I had a crappy old computer (which I don't) I wouldn't be able to run "protected mode games." I'm sorry, I don't plan on ever having a lesser than 386.

Nicht Sehr Gut: I want to thank you for being such a helpful person, even though none of my problems are solved yet, you're giving me good ideas. I don't know what a motherboard device is, maybe you mean hardware.

Create a file named GO.BAT and edit it to contain the single command:

MEM /C >VDMSMEM.TXT

then run it with VDMSound (right-click and choose Run with VDMS), it should create a text file called VDMSMEM.TXT and report something like the following:

I'll do what you just said and post my results.

Conventional Memory :

Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex
------------- ------------------------- -------------
MSDOS 12160 ( 11.9K) 2F80
KBD 3296 ( 3.2K) CE0
EMM 176 ( 0.2K) B0
HIMEM 1248 ( 1.2K) 4E0
MOUSE 12528 ( 12.2K) 30F0
COMMAND 4400 ( 4.3K) 1130
DOSX 34720 ( 33.9K) 87A0
KB16 6096 ( 6.0K) 17D0
FREE 112 ( 0.1K) 70
FREE 752 ( 0.7K) 2F0
FREE 579568 (566.0K) 8D7F0

Total FREE : 580432 (566.8K)

Total bytes available to programs : 580432 (566.8K)
Largest executable program size : 578544 (565.0K)

4194304 bytes total EMS memory
4194304 bytes free EMS memory

8388608 bytes total contiguous extended memory
0 bytes available contiguous extended memory
4045824 bytes available XMS memory
MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area

Sorry that it's kind of illegible, the spacing on this won't let me go more than 1 or 2 spaces between each symbol/digit/letter.
**********************************

Uhh.... I don't see any "upper memory"...

**********************************

By the way, I'm leaving on vacationfor 2 weeks to anybody who doesn't know yet. I'll be gone tomorrow morning/afternoon so I might check then for any replies. I'm can't bring my computer and it's not like my DSL company provides me with service across the globe. Not sure when I can respond, I might forget about my problems temporarily when I get back but I'm sure I'll respond within a 3 weeks from today, if not the day I come back.

ffhighwind wrote:

MajorGrubert: I don't know much on computer history, and I'm not sure if I really understand any of what you just told me. Pretty much what I got out of that is what "safe mode" is, and I kind of knew what it did. It limited the "working environment" and made startup quick and only loaded the most basic desktop it could discluding files and folders (and don't start telling me I'm wrong please because I don't know if what I said really is a perfect definition).

Don't worry, it's a good one.

My processor is definitely newer than a 386, read the very top post with my computer specs. So, what you're telling me was really that if I had a crappy old computer (which I don't) I wouldn't be able to run "protected mode games." I'm sorry, I don't plan on ever having a lesser than 386.

I believe my intention wasn't very clear. You obviously don't need another computer, I just made the distinction between real and protected modes to let you know that real mode games are sometimes easier to play under Windows because you can use DosBox. If you want to play a protected mode game you have to run it under the Windows 2000/XP NTVDM and this means you may have some compatibility problems because the game is not running under pure DOS.

Regards,

ffhighwind wrote:

Conventional memory: […]
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Conventional memory:

Total FREE : 580432 (566.8K)

Total bytes available to programs : 580432 (566.8K)
Largest executable program size : 578544 (565.0K)

4194304 bytes total EMS memory
4194304 bytes free EMS memory

8388608 bytes total contiguous extended memory
0 bytes available contiguous extended memory
4045824 bytes available XMS memory
MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area

If I'm right, Dragon Lore needs only EMS and no DPMI. In this case, you can get more free memory if you do not load DOSX, the DPMI provider.

If you have the VDMSound Launchpad installed (right click the game executable and see if you get an option called "Run with VDMS" with a musical note), then al you need is to turn off the option called "Enable DPMI Support (DOSX)" in the Compatibility tab of the shortcut you created for the game.

If you are not using the launchpad (you really should, makes your life quite easier), then you have to manually edit the AUTOEXEC.VDMS file located in the VDMSound folder (usually C:\Program Files\VDMSound). Open the file with Notepad, find a line near the end that reads:

1lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx.exe

and change it to:

1REM lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx.exe

Now try to run the game again.

Regards,

WOW! IT's WORKIN!!! OMG! But one problem, HOLY CRAP IT'S TOO FAST! The old guy by the shack's mouth moves so fast that it's about 3x the fastest chewing speed.

Still gotta get Xwing working too ;/ I haven't tried removing my zip drive yet so yeah... not sure if I want to right now, it's kind of late and I just beat 2 of my games today (Veil of Darkness and The Incredible Toon Machine).

Gonna go look for solutions to the too fast problem.
Thanks a TON MajorGrubert and Nicht Sehr Gut!

Hmm, well I'm not sure, now that I've done the Xwing fix, and I came back to this game for a test... the game didn't work. Anway, I'm confused... probably a small mistake.

*edit*
Nope, no small mistake... it's giving me a tripple "bad command or file name" in a row. It's could be a problem with whatever I did with the Xwing fix which was either making a custom VDMS config, the fact that I loaded too many programs (even tho I closed them before loading the game), or the SAPUDEX stuff I downloaded.

Other than that I don't know, perhaps I altered the default VDMS (which I highly doubt cuz I think I'd remember).

Originally posted by MajorGrubert With the introduction of the 386 processor a new, flat memory model that supported up to 4GB for virtual memory space. This new operating mode (and its associated instructions) is called "protected mode". Therefore, protected-mode games are games that rely on specific instructions only found on 386 and newer processors and won't run on 8086 ou 80286 computers.

Hrmm..not entirely clear on this. Since there are real-mode games that require a 386, does that mean the "flat memory model" was optional for 386 instructions? or is it that a portion of 386 instructions worked in real-mode, but that using the full set required "Protected Mode".

Originally posted by MajorGrubert If I'm right, Dragon Lore needs only EMS and no DPMI.

Not so, at least not for version 2.0 (Gold version. Finally found my CD's after having given up looking for them).

Loading 'VDDLoader.dll'...
DOS/16M error: [17] system software does not follow VCPI or DPMI specifications

If you are not using the launchpad (you really should, makes your life quite easier), then you have to manually edit the AUTOEXEC.VDMS

*gah*
I wouldn't even give these instructions unless they were absolutely necessary. Too much risk...

Originally posted by ffhighwind I don't know what a motherboard device is, maybe you mean hardware.

Yes. Hardware built into your motherboard, like some have audio chipsets, some even have video built-in. There's usually an option to disable (bypass) these in the BIOS.

Originally posted by ffhighwind MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area ********************************** Uhh.... I don […]
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Originally posted by ffhighwind MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area

**********************************
Uhh.... I don't see any "upper memory"...
**********************************

EDIT/UPDATE: I completely forgot that "High" memory is the first 64K of extended memory. So it does appear that there's some kind of Upper memory problem.

Originally posted by ffhighwind WOW! IT's WORKIN!!! OMG!

Hrmm. Your version doesn't need DPMI?

But one problem, HOLY CRAP IT'S TOO FAST!

*heh*
Noticed that did you? The opening animations, which were impressive if a little "stiff" (not enough "frames" for walking, etc...), now sometimes look downright silly.

The old guy by the shack's mouth moves so fast that it's about 3x the fastest chewing speed.

What? There's a fastest chewing speed? Nobody tells me these things...
*heh*
I did kind of like his "Turbo-Wood-Whittling"

chik-chik-chik-chik-chik-chik-chik-chik-chik-chik

Gonna go look for solutions to the too fast problem.

The next version of DosBox should be able to handle that for you. The present version can't handle "Protected Mode", but it's "coming soon". And DosBox's speed control will work quite nicely (confirmed the game is VGA. If there's anyway of getting SVGA out of this, somebody let me know).

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Hrmm..not entirely clear on this. Since there are real-mode games that require a 386, does that mean the "flat memory model" was optional for 386 instructions?
or is it that a portion of 386 instructions worked in real-mode, but that using the full set required "Protected Mode".

Protected mode together with the flat memory mode is optional. If you do not switch the processor into protected mode (and set the appropriate segment descriptors and page tables), you can still use the old segment:offset model along with the new opcodes that only exist in the 386.

If I recall correctly, a good example of this is PKZIP for DOS: it's a real mode executable that can use 32-bit registers to speed up its arithmetic operations.

Originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut Not so, at least not for version 2.0 (Gold version. Finally found my CD's after having give […]
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Originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut
Not so, at least not for version 2.0 (Gold version. Finally found my CD's after having given up looking for them).

Loading 'VDDLoader.dll'...
DOS/16M error: [17] system software does not follow VCPI or DPMI specifications
*gah*

I found this info through Google, but if the game needs DPMI then he could try just the opposite: enable DOSX and disable EMS to free the 64kB block used by the page frame for UMBs. DOSX seems to work very close to the internals of the NTVDM and does not need EMS or XMS to be available in the VDM to provide DPMI-accessible memory.

Regards

Originally posted by MajorGrubert If you do not switch the processor into protected mode (and set the appropriate segment descriptors and page tables), you can still use the old segment:offset model along with the new opcodes that only exist in the 386.

As it was written... so shall it be done...or something.

...but if the game needs DPMI then he could try just the opposite: enable DOSX and disable EMS to free the 64kB block used by the page frame for UMBs.

Why didn't I think of that? The whole point of DPMI was to get around the old DOS memory limitations, so it doesn't actually need EMS memory.
Thanks for the clarification.

Odd then that the memory requirements show EMS. Hrmm. Maybe that was for version 1.0. In any case my "gold" version ran fine without EMS. If his is the same, it should fix the problem.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Why didn't I think of that? The whole point of DPMI was to get around the old DOS memory limitations, so it doesn't actually need EMS memory.
Thanks for the clarification.

Odd then that the memory requirements show EMS. Hrmm. Maybe that was for version 1.0. In any case my "gold" version ran fine without EMS. If his is the same, it should fix the problem.

I remember that under true DOS, DMPI providers needed XMS or eventually EMS in order to get access to memory, so most games listed XMS or EMS as a requirement. Inside the NTVDM, however, DOSX provides DMPI services even if you disable EMS and XMS support for the VDM, or at least this what it seems to me after some tests with DPMI-based games that use DOS4/GW.

Regards,

Originally posted by MajorGrubert Inside the NTVDM, however, DOSX provides DMPI services even if you disable EMS and XMS support for the VDM, or at least this what it seems to me after some tests with DPMI-based games that use DOS4/GW.

*heh* Nailing down all this info is like trying to catch a greased pig.

AAh, im back 😀 have yo missed me?

However, i know that this prog sux, but i used QEMM to make my dragon lore 1 to work. But it was on a P166 win95 🙄 ....but it is worth a try? I had the same problem...