Does the BIOS of the destination machine support that large of a disk? What does it report for the size of the disk?

collector wrote:

Does the BIOS of the destination machine support that large of a disk? What does it report for the size of the disk?

Check first picture... 🤣

"IDE Pri Master : LBA,UDMA 33,4096MB"

We're talking normal BX slot1 mobo here, nothing 'fancy'....

I never partition drives, destined for a DOS machine, outside of that machine.

Use a DOS 6.22 boot disk, delete all the partitions and create them from scratch. A 4GB drive will split nicely into 2 FAT16 partitions.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I never partition drives, destined for a DOS machine, outside of that machine.

I agree, this seems like a reasonable approach.

Alternatively, you might try Norton GDisk, which works in plain DOS. I think it might even be legal to download from somewhere or other.

Also, you didn't say that you formatted the second logical partition as FAT16. Just something to double-check.

One more thing: did you set the parameters of the hard drive in the BIOS manually, or did you let it auto-detect? Even if you know what the parameters ought to be, it is better to leave it on Auto. (I recall that caused me some partition-access wackiness in the past.)

I second using 6.22 fdisk. I've run into all kinds problems trying to format a dos install with win based utilities.

In my opinion, the patched versions of fdisk from DOS 7.1 and that of PTS DOS and Freedos all do a much more reliable job -even if one still uses DOS 6.22- than fdisk shipped with DOS 6.22.

Among these threads, there is some good reading about the deficiencies of fdisk and about the patched versions

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/129027-big-hd … a-thread-index/

4 GB is so tiny that it shouldn't be causing any problems, though. (I understood MS-DOS started running into problems around 8 GB.)

Oh, one more thing, Mr. Bestemor: why create a primary partition and an extended partition with two logical partitions, when you can just create three primary partitions? A major advantage is that you could multi-boot (in case you wanted to) just by toggling which one is active.

Jolaes76 wrote:

In my opinion, the patched versions of fdisk from DOS 7.1 and that of PTS DOS and Freedos all do a much more reliable job -even if one still uses DOS 6.22- than fdisk shipped with DOS 6.22.
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/129027-big-hd … a-thread-index/

No doubt, but I believe the poster encountered formatiing problems using PartitionMagic [and another utility] under Windows for his DOS install. I've tried the win based partition/format route a number of times and for whatever reason it's has not worked. I have DOS 6.22 floppies on hand so I use those and they do, though the process is not as easy as PQM etc.

You are probably right regarding DOS 7.1 having a superior formatting utility, but the important 'way out' is to avoid the windows based utilities for DOS partitioning/formatting, at least that's been my experience.

tincup wrote:

Jolaes76 wrote:

In my opinion, the patched versions of fdisk from DOS 7.1 and that of PTS DOS and Freedos all do a much more reliable job -even if one still uses DOS 6.22- than fdisk shipped with DOS 6.22.
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/129027-big-hd … a-thread-index/

No doubt, but I believe the poster encountered formatiing problems using PartitionMagic [and another utility] under Windows for his DOS install. I've tried the win based partition/format route a number of times and for whatever reason it's has not worked. I have DOS 6.22 floppies on hand so I use those and they do, though the process is not as easy as PQM etc.

You are probably right regarding DOS 7.1 having a superior formatting utility, but the important 'way out' is to avoid the windows based utilities for DOS partitioning/formatting, at least that's been my experience.

I'm still working on this, but RL takes a bit of time and I try to portion the DOS frustration into smaller chunks, to preserve some level of sanity... 😖

['other' utilities beeing the built in winXP DiskManager and win98 fdisk on installed machines(not boot disks)]

Last effort was killing all but the 1 primary partition, and seeing what the installed DOS then did... not very promising, check screenprint below...

(DOS automatically suggests a new extended size of 3426mb!, + primary of 957mb = 4383mb... !!?? 😲 )

- Now, how to kill the disk(and MBR??) completely and create a pure DOS 622 bootdisk which can do fdisk properly... hmm... I'll try to figure out something, later...
(getting tired of "wrong dos version" at every corner, even with seemingly blank disk... win98 bootdisk no good, not even my old dos one)

Fdisk picture (pure genuine DOS 6.22, not windowed or dosprompt win98):
Wonder what size I will get if I even dare go thru with this inane partition(88% of the disk, already using 25%! MBR fcuked up ?):

PS:
reason for wanting extended/logical ones and not several multiboot primary, is to have some storage/install space at hand, for larger (full) DOS installs, backups etc etc.

But, me not so great with this software side of things, could one have 3 primary partitions with only one of them active AND be able to use the other 2 normally for installs/data etc? Or is that just silly ?

Again, why not create 2x2GB partitions?

2 GB is the max size a FAT16 partition can have and I never had issues with several partitions as long as they are 2GB.

I'm not sure I get the problem. As stated previously, FAT16 can only handle 2gb partitions - if you want larger, just use a Windows 98SE (whose dos components support FAT32) boot disk and partition and format your disk with that.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Again, why not create 2x2GB partitions?

2 GB is the max size a FAT16 partition can have and I never had issues with several partitions as long as they are 2GB.

I want to (try to) minimize wasted space(cluster size doubles at 1024mb).
AND be able to just kill/re-image C-disk if any strange problems or me inadvertently altering things I shouldn't have and then cant fix.
All while keeping the other data on the extention/logical drives unharmed.
(hence better with a smaller C-partition)

megatron-uk wrote:

I'm not sure I get the problem. As stated previously, FAT16 can only handle 2gb partitions - if you want larger, just use a Windows 98SE (whose dos components support FAT32) boot disk and partition and format your disk with that.

Ok, but I do NOT want larger partitions on this tiny drive, see also explanation above.
AND also using a win98 boot disk does not work at all(nor does attaching drive to a win98 machine), as the extended/logical (FAT16) partitions made with it does not show up AT ALL after I installed DOS 622 on the primary active one... 🙁
Looks fine and dandy when win98(or XP) looks at it, but when all alone in a pure DOS environment then... <booom.... >

Oh well, I will eventually solve this, somehow... I hope.... maybe.... heh 😎

I think you are totally over-engineering the task 😀

bestemor wrote:

Ok, but I do NOT want larger partitions on this tiny drive, see also explanation above. AND also using a win98 boot disk does n […]
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megatron-uk wrote:

I'm not sure I get the problem. As stated previously, FAT16 can only handle 2gb partitions - if you want larger, just use a Windows 98SE (whose dos components support FAT32) boot disk and partition and format your disk with that.

Ok, but I do NOT want larger partitions on this tiny drive, see also explanation above.
AND also using a win98 boot disk does not work at all(nor does attaching drive to a win98 machine), as the extended/logical (FAT16) partitions made with it does not show up AT ALL after I installed DOS 622 on the primary active one... 🙁
Looks fine and dandy when win98(or XP) looks at it, but when all alone in a pure DOS environment then... <booom.... >

Oh well, I will eventually solve this, somehow... I hope.... maybe.... heh 😎

You only need logical and extended partitions if you want more than 4 partitions on a device.

Use Win98SE bootdisk to boot from in the machine you're using the hdd in.

fdisk /mbr to wipe the boot record
fdisk - delete all existing partitions
Reboot with Win98 boot floppy again
fdisk
partition the 4GB drive however you want it - 1 + 2, 2 + 2, 0.5 + 3.5, 1 + 1+ 1 +1, anything you like, set the first to be active.
format /s c:
format all other partitions.
sys c:
mkdir c:\dos
copy a:\*.* c:\dos
reboot, add a basic config.sys and autoexec.bat

If you have missing dos commands you want to use from dos 6.22, just copy them from your dos 6.22 floppies. There you go, disk partitioned, FAT32 support and a working dos environment without any trace of windows. As long as the partitions are under 2Gb in size, they should be formatted as FAT16 automatically and readable by DOS5/6.

I agree with Mau1wurf1977; you're over thinking the problem.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I think you are totally over-engineering the task 😀

Probably... but when I started out I wasn't expecting such hard resistance from DOS... 😁
And there should (in theory?) be no reason this very simple(!!) desire for a small C-partion is too much to ask, right ?

(I mean, how did they partition it, back when the 'standard' hdd was 1.4gb ? I assume at least some individuals chose to have more than just a big lump of C:\ , or maybe not.... 🤣 )

I want my 3 partitions, basta! 😎 😎 😎

megatron-uk wrote:

You only need logical and extended partitions if you want more than 4 partitions on a device. […]
Show full quote

You only need logical and extended partitions if you want more than 4 partitions on a device.

Use Win98SE bootdisk to boot from in the machine you're using the hdd in.

fdisk /mbr to wipe the boot record
fdisk - delete all existing partitions
Reboot with Win98 boot floppy again
fdisk
partition the 4GB drive however you want it - 1 + 2, 2 + 2, 0.5 + 3.5, 1 + 1+ 1 +1, anything you like, set the first to be active.
format /s c:
format all other partitions.
sys c:
mkdir c:\dos
copy a:\*.* c:\dos
reboot, add a basic config.sys and autoexec.bat

If you have missing dos commands you want to use from dos 6.22, just copy them from your dos 6.22 floppies. There you go, disk partitioned, FAT32 support and a working dos environment without any trace of windows. As long as the partitions are under 2Gb in size, they should be formatted as FAT16 automatically and readable by DOS5/6.

I agree with Mau1wurf1977; you're over thinking the problem.

Thankyou!!! I might try this later.
Still, I wasn't expecting using DOS 6.22 to be so troublesome. (=impossible?)

And won't I get all sorts of "wrong DOS version" if mixing in dos files from 6.22? I surely gotten a lot of that during my trials and tribulations so far, fdisk in particular.

Anyway, I can have 3 primary partitions then, 1 active, the rest 'inactive'(?) and still be able to use them all normally/simultanously ?
(sorry for the newb questions, but disk manipulation is clearly not my forte... 😊 )

bestemor wrote:

Looks fine and dandy when win98(or XP) looks at it, but when all alone in a pure DOS environment then...

That's why you need to partition/format using DOS - the problem you describe happens to me too if I try otherwise.

As for drive iimaging, if you put [or already have] your FAT16 DOS HD in a computer running W9x off another HD, you can image the DOS drives out of a Windows session... at least the options are there for it.

Alternatively you can make a wholesale drive copy of DOS C:\ to a empty reserve partition using a DOS hard drive copy utility, like EZMax [MaxBlaster] if you use a Maxtor.

Either way I'm partial to sizing C:\ partition to just what you need for the OS, basic apps, cache, and about 50% overhead, with all the games/data going on D:. That way OS copy/restore operations take very little time.

bestemor wrote:

But, me not so great with this software side of things, could one have 3 primary partitions with only one of them active AND be able to use the other 2 normally for installs/data etc? Or is that just silly ?

bestemor wrote:

Anyway, I can have 3 primary partitions then, 1 active, the rest 'inactive'(?) and still be able to use them all normally/simultanously ?

Yes, exactly. You can have three primary partitions. ("Primary" is a bit of a misnomer in that sense.) In standard use, three primary partitions are indistinguishable from a primary partition plus two logical partitions in an extended partition.

If I create 3 primate FAT16 partitions (let's say a 6GB CF card). Would these all be accessible if I put the CF card in a USB card reader?

Because, at least with extended partitions, they don't show up which is the main reason why I switched to W98SE / FAT32.