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Reply 40 of 91, by tikalat

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Interesting. Thanks for recording.

I'm not sure if the TG300 (GM-B) mode supports bank ctf (no recording). If you'd like to find out, please run the test:
- GS reset
- MIDI test
- MIDI test
--- listen to reverb + chorus (organ + ocarina)
--- if you hear it, it passes BANK CTF. else it's a fail.

Just mentioning the result will do.

edit:
Looking over the current scoreboard, a GM1 reset could mess up a lot of devices. 😮

Reply 41 of 91, by d1stortion

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Depends on the device. Roland synths have the advantage of taking all drum kits in GM mode so no difference there. On the other hand I had "No INSTRUMENT" messages with many files that use variation banks (SC-88 GS mode). I found two solutions for it but both are not optimal. Didn't investigate it too deeply; seems like a backwards compatibility issue (or completely different target synth). The Yamaha synths I use need that TG300B mode but played just about everything I threw at them correctly with it.

Btw, I think you made an error by listing BANK CTF as failed for S-YXG50. I hear reverb and chorus in the third run of my recording. Listen to it again.

Last edited by d1stortion on 2013-06-09, 13:15. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 42 of 91, by Stefan_L

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oops.. i did not know i should have played the midi twice.
The second time i play the midi (no reset before) so does it play "windchime" on channel 1 wich can be heard (it is not silent) and also "jingle bells" does play... instead it play "door squeak" sfx.
The "reverb + chorus (organ + ocarina)" play fine though.

Reply 43 of 91, by tikalat

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@ d1stortion
Yes. Fixed. Thanks.

Easiest to just tell everyone to send GS reset before playing games.

@ Stefan_L
Windchimes - if it plays full 2 seconds, the sysex volume failed. Shouldn't happen. If for fraction of second, MIDI timing issue. No complaints.

Door squeak - intentional correct. Ch10 still in CM64 (kit 128) so door instead of jingle bell. Result of bad MIDI file that sends no GS reset.

organ + ocarina - good. BANK CTF pass. Thanks - added.

Reply 45 of 91, by d1stortion

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A small tidbit in regard to Apogee games...

Emidi11.txt wrote:

Note: Although the Roland Sound Canvas is supported, it is only supported in GM mode. The Apogee Sound System does not
support the direct sending of System Exclusive messages required
for GS mode support.

Also concerning the thing I said earlier about differing playback for ingame vs. downloaded files. Here's one from that mirsoft site (Evryoff.mid). Uses different instruments compared to Shadow Warrior shareware E1M1.

Reply 48 of 91, by d1stortion

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Hey tikalat, could you check out this one? Seems to be some interesting bank change going on at CH#1 around the 13 sec mark. Shows it as PC #074 BNK #015, which does not exist on a SC-55, so I wonder what that's about. It just keeps playing back the Flute though.

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Reply 50 of 91, by d1stortion

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Well those aren't all from the 88Pro map, there are more. Flute 2 (74,1), Flute Exp. (74,2), Flt Travelso (74,3). 15 is nowhere to be found on any Sound Canvas it seems.

Would be interesting to ask Lee Jackson himself what this bank switch was all about. Especially after they explain how their sound system doesn't do GS. Or could it have just slipped in there by mistake, or is the MIDI file wrong... questions, questions 😀

Reply 51 of 91, by Stefan_L

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d1stortion how did you find out about that in the first place... do you go thru all midi music and searching for program change events? 😀 Or did it mess up one of you MIDI modules and thats why it got your attention?

tikalat is probably right when he said it could be for another device.... maybe the event is for the FM version of the music?

Reply 52 of 91, by d1stortion

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Just spot checks. I noticed something else. Duke3D tracks by Bobby Prince have GS resets. The ones by Lee Jackson don't. Both composers have those weird banks in some of their tracks though. Could be a driver thing of course, who knows...

Also, the music for Shadow Warrior was apparently created on a Kurzweil K2500RS. This information can be found in the in-game help file. Obviously this is rather concerning the redbook tracks than the shareware MIDIs.

Reply 54 of 91, by d1stortion

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For non-standard drum set usage I thought of three more games for the list: Descent, Descent II and Age of Empires. The first two would be especially interesting to keep in mind for future inspection as I've heard that the driver does something here as well so that in-game playback will differ from those MIDIs you can grab from the net.

AoE on the other hand is another one with lots of unknown banks that don't exist on common GS synths. A theory could be that many of those game MIDI files were authored for workstation playback (i.e. redbook tracks) and provided without changes, as any run-of-the-mill GM synth would play back the capital tones just fine. MIDI usage in games was declining by that time anyway...

Reply 55 of 91, by tikalat

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Thanks.

Updated stuff.
- WIN titles + NR warnings
- New (short) entries about Descent
- Moved PQ4 to 1993
- Added [DRUM] to Pepper's Adventures

##############################
##############################

Rise of the Triad: Dark War (1994)
Rise of the Triad: The HUNT Begins (1994) (demo)
Extreme Rise of the Triad (1995)

1) None send a GS / GM reset.

2) GS percussion hits (Lee Jackson tracks)

deadly.mid = God Rest Ye, Deadly Gentlemen
- Jingle Bell

goingup.mid = Going Up
- Shaker

watznext.mid = Watz Next?
- Shaker

Reply 56 of 91, by tikalat

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Something new: META Event - Prefix Port 21h

This allows multi-MIDI devices to be used (>16 channels)
- 0 = device 1
- 1 = device 2

ROTT - WORK_DAY.MID
- unknown author (Bobby Prince?)
- all tracks play on device 2 only. so nothing lost.

Reply 58 of 91, by tikalat

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Descent, Daggerfall use HMI format. The XMIDI alternative, which I need to find more info.

Apogee (Duke3D, Shadow) use EMIDI.
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1988
http://hendricks266.duke4.net/databases/midi/ … 0CD/Emidi11.txt

Explains why MIDI files have different arrangments.

Reply 59 of 91, by d1stortion

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Good explanation by Siegler right there. This finally confirms it, ingame recordings are needed to properly represent MIDI music playback in these particular games.

As far as the different instruments for different hardware go, I actually noticed this a year ago when I was playing Duke3D on an AWE64 and comparing GM to AWE mode. I still think Grabbag sounds so goofy on AWE when you compare it to a serious synth like ones from Roland or Yamaha 😀