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VGA games with only 16 colors

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Reply 80 of 86, by VileR

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The C64 palette is of course superior in many respects. Besides the choice of hues, there's also a much smoother brightness gradient across the different colors. The RGBI CGA colors' brightness gradient is more like 3 or 4 discrete "jumps".

However, I think the softer "pastel" appearance of the C64 palette (in the commonly-seen versions) is more a function of optimal conversion for emulation purposes. IIRC, on an actual TV set this is not apparent- most of them are perceived as more saturated. (There's also a significant difference between NTSC and PAL.)

@Cyberdyne: please do not equate the IBM RGBI palette with that of the ZX Spectrum. 😉 The Speccy palette is closer to those 16 colors that Microsoft chose for Windows, and that's one of the reasons I've always found the Windows palette even harsher and uglier. Although, I suspect that they chose those colors as a mathematically-convenient set for dithering higher-color graphics.

Also:
Having gotten a CGA RGB monitor finally, I've revived my suspicion that the real, original appearance of those 16 colors is *not* exactly the same as how they're rendered in analog VGA (and hence, in all emulators). But I'm reserving my conclusions until I can do some more testing.

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Reply 81 of 86, by leileilol

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The often desaturated C64 palette I see in shots and emulation isn't how I saw it on the monitor (in the US). It was bright, colorful, and bled with an audible buzz.

The Windows 3.0 VGA palette's kind of similarly desaturated...

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Reply 82 of 86, by Jo22

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leileilol wrote on 2020-09-22, 00:09:

The often desaturated C64 palette I see in shots and emulation isn't how I saw it on the monitor (in the US). It was bright, colorful, and bled with an audible buzz.

The Windows 3.0 VGA palette's kind of similarly desaturated...

The web says something about YUV conversions in some PAL models.

Edit: Found something. NTSC models use YIQ, also.
http://unusedino.de/ec64/technical/misc/vic656x/colors/

Edit: Too bad I have no access to my VC-1702 monitor right now. That was my Nintendo monitor.
And also the original C64 monitor.
Perhaps VICE and ither emulators try to mimic this model in particular?

From what I remember, SMB on NES (PAL, via Composite) had a light-blue sky on my 1702.
Not the intensive azure blue found on some videos/screenshot from the US version.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 83 of 86, by dr.zeissler

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For my A2286/8/1MB/ET4000 I really dig those 16color VGA games because:
- they are much faster than the 256color games
- the image is completely centered on the TFT (256colors are shifted 5mm to the right leaving a small vertical black space=
- if they use a tweaked/real VGA palette than it's best...having those 16/CGA/EGA colors is not the way to go 😀

I am still collecting Games that use hires 640x350/16 EGA or VGA-Pal and also 480x480 16colors VGA. But these are hard to find if they need to run on lowend 286/8.

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Reply 84 of 86, by Cyberdyne

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RGBI is what it is. 16 color Windows uses the same RGBI. And ZX Spectrum just does not have the IBM CGA introduced BROWN color, istead has dark yellow. I do not see any difference in RGBI and Windows 16 color display. Only one GREY level added. ZX spectrum has 2 BLACKS. Maybe some VGA cards or drivers do something.

VileR wrote on 2020-09-21, 23:58:

@Cyberdyne: please do not equate the IBM RGBI palette with that of the ZX Spectrum. 😉 The Speccy palette is closer to those 16 colors that Microsoft chose for Windows, and that's one of the reasons I've always found the Windows palette even harsher and uglier. Although, I suspect that they chose those colors as a mathematically-convenient set for dithering higher-color graphics.

I am aroused about any X86 motherboard that has full functional ISA slot. I think i have problem. Not really into that original (Turbo) XT,286,386 and CGA/EGA stuff. So just a DOS nut.

Reply 85 of 86, by VileR

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Cyberdyne wrote on 2022-02-09, 15:37:

RGBI is what it is. 16 color Windows uses the same RGBI. And ZX Spectrum just does not have the IBM CGA introduced BROWN color, istead has dark yellow. I do not see any difference in RGBI and Windows 16 color display. Only one GREY level added. ZX spectrum has 2 BLACKS. Maybe some VGA cards or drivers do something.

The 16-color Windows palette has 100% saturation for the bright colors (RGBI has 2/3), and the dark colors are only half as bright (vs. 2/3 again for RGBI). That's aside from the dark yellow. Not exactly a day-and-night difference, but to me it's quite noticeable.

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Reply 86 of 86, by rmay635703

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-09-21, 05:42:
Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-09-21, 05:02:

Well Commodore 64 had also only 16 colors to choose from, but it had better and more natural colors. Thath IBM/ZX Spectrum RGBI Pallette is not natural for games.

Yes, C64 colours looked softer, more pastel also, I think.

C64 not really having blue must suck