Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Getting old DOS games working. (DOSBox topics belong in DOSBox areas below, not here).

Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby Stretch » 2017-7-12 @ 03:14

I zeroed out 002.wav and 013.wav in a hex editor, copied the ULTRASND folder and used setsound.exe to enable Gravis Ultrasound, but there is no audio at the title screen now. How do I hear the GUS midi music?
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby Nyerguds2 » 2017-7-12 @ 16:46

Okay... this is getting completely bizarre.

I actually tried replacing a .wav file, and playing with Gravis Ultrasound... and it seems my thoughts about it being midi were completely wrong. It actually played the replaced music.

So this means that the GUS actually does some sort of post-processing to make the music sound more crisp? So odd...

It does mean my tool is actually still usable :)
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-24 @ 23:30

badmojo wrote:Well I've given the CD version a spin over the last couple of days and as much as I love the floppy version, I gotta say that MK CD comes out on top. Why haven't I heard about this sooner??

The CD version's FX are bloody excellent and the smoother animations + fast pace are a major plus. I bought it on GoG, installed it on my Win10 machine, and simply copied the MK1 folder over to my Win95 P166 PC and it works perfectly. It even works in Win95 - you have to boot to native DOS with the floppy version.

The only downside is that you can't choose OPL3 music - not that the CD music is bad, I just think that the OPL3 score was a highlight of the floppy version. I started poking around with my hex editor to see if there was anything I could do about getting OPL3 with the CD version but I'm too old for that shit. I'll learn to love the CD music in time.


Since I have played the original Floppy version of MK1 and even practiced combos on it which I later tried using on the actual MK2 arcade machine. The MK1 for floppy was quite good. The MIDI effects were a highlight. A 386 could barely handle the game with Very High Detail so I think I may have used Medium or Low. But as far as the CD version. I can't remember if I ever tried this. So since you have tried the MK1 CD version does it require you to enter the word to get into the game or was it removed on the CD release of MK1 and MK2?

According to this youtube video which does a comparison only the MK1 CD version was modified to be superior to the floppy version. The MK2 version did not change if any.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ROyGy3yhRc

However as for recording of the best Mortal Kombat sound samples I must say if you want to remain true to the actual game I would use the MAME and record the MK1 audio from the game directly instead. I also have the MK CD if I wanted the purest sound.

As for MK2 PC vs MK2 MAME. MK2 Mame beats it by far. The Audio quality is superior and the combos are intact. There is some strange glitch and one combo that does not work properly on the PC version with Scorpion which annoyed me since I always performed it in the arcade.

I later played the MK2 PC version after the Arcade machines were gone. I still remember the cheat code for it which was nonsensical. :evil: I will also note that the MK2 version had blood which was removed on the Nintendo version. Also it was superior to the Genesis version. I also own the Amiga version but I haven't had time to play it to do a comparison. But that version should be on par with the PC version. The Prince of Persia Amiga version is almost the same as the PC version with SB/VGA.

Although today I wouldn't really need any cheats to beat the game. If you truly wanted a challenge use the Left player side against the right side CPU on the Highest Difficulty.
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby Nyerguds2 » 2017-7-25 @ 07:00

95DosBox wrote:However as for recording of the best Mortal Kombat sound samples I must say if you want to remain true to the actual game I would use the MAME and record the MK1 audio from the game directly instead. I also have the MK CD if I wanted the purest sound.

The MK1 Sega CD tracks seem to very often be cut off at the start. Not sur if that's just a playback issue on PC or really like that on the disc, but since those are bare CD audio tracks, I suspect the latter. Notably, some of the gong sounds are cut off, whereas the (lower quality) wav files in the PC CD version have them completely. There are also a lot of tracks simply missing; a CD can only hold so many audio tracks.

I haven't experimented on with the sound replacement, but I did find out there are limits to the size that the game can handle. May just be memory limit; maybe it really can't allocate more. The fact it seems to actually preload the entire files is definitely bad design on the developers' side, though :P

If it's just the game running out of memory, then maybe giving DOSBox more memory might solve it, but I don't know what kind of memory management MK1 uses, and how much mem it is actually capable of addressing. Though DOS games usually do claim all they are given, so that's a plus.

By the way, talking about the midi/floppy version... I made this silly little add-on for the GOG version:
MK1 floppy (midi) version for GOG install ;)
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby mr_bigmouth_502 » 2017-7-25 @ 15:02

95DosBox wrote:I later played the MK2 PC version after the Arcade machines were gone. I still remember the cheat code for it which was nonsensical. :evil: I will also note that the MK2 version had blood which was removed on the Nintendo version.

The North American SNES version of MK2 had all the blood and fatalities intact; MK1 was censored however. Not sure about the PAL release of MK2.
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-26 @ 00:24

Nyerguds2 wrote:
95DosBox wrote:However as for recording of the best Mortal Kombat sound samples I must say if you want to remain true to the actual game I would use the MAME and record the MK1 audio from the game directly instead. I also have the MK CD if I wanted the purest sound.

The MK1 Sega CD tracks seem to very often be cut off at the start. Not sur if that's just a playback issue on PC or really like that on the disc, but since those are bare CD audio tracks, I suspect the latter. Notably, some of the gong sounds are cut off, whereas the (lower quality) wav files in the PC CD version have them completely. There are also a lot of tracks simply missing; a CD can only hold so many audio tracks.

I haven't experimented on with the sound replacement, but I did find out there are limits to the size that the game can handle. May just be memory limit; maybe it really can't allocate more. The fact it seems to actually preload the entire files is definitely bad design on the developers' side, though :P

If it's just the game running out of memory, then maybe giving DOSBox more memory might solve it, but I don't know what kind of memory management MK1 uses, and how much mem it is actually capable of addressing. Though DOS games usually do claim all they are given, so that's a plus.

By the way, talking about the midi/floppy version... I made this silly little add-on for the GOG version:
MK1 floppy (midi) version for GOG install ;)


When I meant the MK CD I should have said the MK CD OST. This CD contained a ton of tracks from both MK1 and MK2 not to be confused with the MK CD that had the MK1 and MK2 DOS Games.

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
95DosBox wrote:I later played the MK2 PC version after the Arcade machines were gone. I still remember the cheat code for it which was nonsensical. :evil: I will also note that the MK2 version had blood which was removed on the Nintendo version.

The North American SNES version of MK2 had all the blood and fatalities intact; MK1 was censored however. Not sure about the PAL release of MK2.

Hmmm did the MK2 SNES have red blood on it or black oil globs? Did you have enable an option to get blood? I think if they did retain the red blood it was due to the backlash from MK1 censorship and possibly lower sales compared to Sega. I know the MK1 was censored which was ridiculous and the Sega had red blood.

But both versions still sucked compared to the PC version of MK1 or MK2. But nothing beats the MAME version using the real Arcade Roms of both except owning the real arcade machines. :blush:
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby leileilol » 2017-7-26 @ 02:14

US MK2 SNES blood was red and on by default. Nintendo allowed it this time (this was during their "Play it loud" hardcore marketing phase against Sega and this was just before the ESRB was formed)
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-26 @ 04:26

leileilol wrote:US MK2 SNES blood was red and on by default. Nintendo allowed it this time (this was during their "Play it loud" hardcore marketing phase against Sega and this was just before the ESRB was formed)

I guess that included the two fatalities per character. But I felt the MK2 fatalities were tamer than MK1 which had more shock value. The ripping of the head with spine of Sub-zero. The multiple beheading uppercuts of Johnny Cage. I think only Baraka's impalement came even close to shocking in MK2. A reason why I picked him in the early days. :evil:
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby dr_st » 2017-7-26 @ 07:46

95DosBox wrote:But I felt the MK2 fatalities were tamer than MK1 which had more shock value.

No way! MK2 fatalities on average were way more shocking. Baraka's impalement that you mentioned is probably the best example (and is way more gruesome than anything you find in MK1), but you also had: Kung Lao' slicing the opponent in half, Jax's arm rip / head crush, Scorpion's "toasty" fatality with the victim actually twisting and screaming while burning, Raiden electrocuting the opponent until they explode... Even the standard decapitation fatalities where awesome, with that ball of blood splashing onto the ground.

Cage's triple decapitation, which was a mere glitch in MK1 became a standard fatality in MK2.

It's because of the fatality style that I find MK2 being the best, darkest of the early MK games. I think the sound effects with the blood splashing and the victim screaming were contributing a lot to the mood.

MK3 fatalities were just goofy. Either silly, or with over-the-top violence (victim continues screaming even after losing the head, multiple heads / rib cages after explosion...)
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-26 @ 09:05

dr_st wrote:
95DosBox wrote:But I felt the MK2 fatalities were tamer than MK1 which had more shock value.

No way! MK2 fatalities on average were way more shocking. Baraka's impalement that you mentioned is probably the best example (and is way more gruesome than anything you find in MK1), but you also had: Kung Lao' slicing the opponent in half, Jax's arm rip / head crush, Scorpion's "toasty" fatality with the victim actually twisting and screaming while burning, Raiden electrocuting the opponent until they explode... Even the standard decapitation fatalities where awesome, with that ball of blood splashing onto the ground.


Well the sound system was definitely superior to MK1's. Especially if the vendor put the volume on MAX setting. During the demo mode you could hear it blasting across the cafeteria. ;)

But KL's slicing not really too graphic and maybe I got used to them. Jax's arm pulling well yes bloody but also looked too fake. Head crush was okay like breaking candy bits everywhere but yes violent. Scorpion's toasty was just plain funny more than violent after watching it so many times and those juggled bones bouncing after. LK's Dragon head bite was pretty dumb maybe a fierce dragon flame burning them to a crisp and then sizzling then the head chomp with multiple bites as if devouring them one bite at a time while blood dripped down the mouth of the dragon and body parts started to get disassembled and fall to the ground dripping in blood pools. And you can say Reptile's Tongue Head Snatch and Mileena's rapid tsais attack was pretty tame. Single fan head slice from Kitana yawn. The Kiss well was a bit more erotic than a fatality until the person starts inflating.

MK2 only the Baraka impalement really makes your opponent feel demoralized and hearing Kitana or Mileena slide down the blades doing a few final yelps really seals the deal for that Fatality's effectiveness. I did so many of those instead of the Baraka blade head chop off. Sometimes if I got bored I'd just do the vanilla Bitch slap back hand move instead to my opponent. That sent some of them to the quarter change machine to break a large bill and you could tell they were fuming.

:evil:

Sub-zero's super ice freeze and ball explosion didn't quite do it for me versus his original head ripped out with the spine.

Raiden lightning electrocution till explosion? Sorry maybe if he did some sort of Golden Axe move where you see all sorts of lightning bolts hitting the screen simultaneously frying the guy here and there and each bolt that hit you'd hear yelping and screeching with burning sizzling sound effects then one big lighting bolt charge up in a Ryu/Ken style fireball of a huge lightning bolt to sizzle Fatality would have truly made a god like fatality kill.

It would have been nice if Kano, Sonya, Red Flaming Liu Kang or Green Liu Kang on the bridge was released so you could choose them as characters or fight them.

Goro was more intimidating then the successor Kintaro.

Cage's triple decapitation, which was a mere glitch in MK1 became a standard fatality in MK2.

It's because of the fatality style that I find MK2 being the best, darkest of the early MK games. I think the sound effects with the blood splashing and the victim screaming were contributing a lot to the mood.

MK3 fatalities were just goofy. Either silly, or with over-the-top violence (victim continues screaming even after losing the head, multiple heads / rib cages after explosion...)


That had more to do with the DCS Sound System. I agree that MK3 was too goofy. I felt it looked too cartoony like the actors were not properly digitized and used in their same dimensions as MK2. It seemed like they shrunk them horizontally and compressed them and looked more stick figure like. Also the Run button wasn't introduced very well. You should only be able to run in short bursts but not right into the opponent. And after awhile the random button button tapping BS combos ruined the game. There was skill in timing your kicks and special weapons and the whole juggling was cumulative damage. In MK3 each consecutive combo hit took off less damage and each one hit damage was reduced as well which was annoying. It used to take 4 uppercuts to get to the near death ding. I think in MK3 it might have been increased to 5 or 6. They weakened Kang's fireballs and most of the actors were changed from MK1 and MK2.

I was hoping they were going to redo MK1 in HD using the original footage. Maybe MK2 as well. Later they could do a new MK based on MK2's combat engine and used the aged actors from the original two games. Maybe add another 3rd special weapon and maybe 4th special weapon giving each of the characters a little more balance, 1 or two extra fatalities but the combo system should be the same and no Run button of if it must have the Run button it can only do short burst but not run straight next to the opponent. Add Goro, Kintaro, Shang Tsung MK1, and Shao Kahn MK2 for the four series of bosses you have to beat in a row. Bring back the hand breaking the bricks bonus. It was useful for a quick time out on your hands. :blush:

UMK3 at least brought back some of those characters from MK1 and MK2.
And MK4 which I hardly played in the Arcade with its dodging in 3D actions. It just kept getting worse.
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby dr_st » 2017-7-26 @ 14:45

Interesting observations. :) I think MK1 holds this special place in your heart since it came first, and left a stronger impression. But ultimately I feel that MK2 was stronger in all aspects.

When you take into account that MK1 was the first blockbuster game where something like this was seen, the gore and extreme violence were really shocking and made a lasting impression. Come the sequel, people were already expecting it, so they may not have been as impressed. However, on its own, MK2 definitely raised the bar of graphical violence higher than MK1. Ultimately, Sub-Zero's spine rip fatality is the only one in MK1 that's really gruesome. No wonder it became legendary. But MK2 had many fatalities on the same level of violence. Heck, even some of the special moves, e.g., Kitana's fan swipe and Baraka's blade swipe, which basically slit the opponent's throat would be considered 'over the top' in MK1 timeframe. Scorpion's second fatality where he also slits your throat before cutting the torso off is also awesome. :D

Same comment about Goro v. Kintaro, really. Facing Goro for the first time, especially with his scary roars, one goes like "whoa what the hell is that how do I beat it mommy help". But he's not actually so hard. Kintaro - well, you see him the first time, and you think it's more of the same, but he is bloody hard (at least on the PC version; the arcade UI seems to have a stupid bug where you can just defeat him with jump kicks).

95DosBox wrote: In MK3 each consecutive combo hit took off less damage and each one hit damage was reduced as well which was annoying. It used to take 4 uppercuts to get to the near death ding. I think in MK3 it might have been increased to 5 or 6. They weakened Kang's fireballs and most of the actors were changed from MK1 and MK2.
The MK3 damage protection and move disabling was actually very advanced and complex, with the goal of creating a balanced game with no overpowered combos / infinites. It is quite intricate and interesting when you learn about it. They further refined it in UMK3 and MKT. You can read about many details from some of the experts in Kombat Kolumns.
95DosBox wrote:They weakened Kang's fireballs and most of the actors were changed from MK1 and MK2.
This was due to employer-employee disagreements between Midway and some of the actors. It's well-documented in various places. :)

95DosBox wrote:I was hoping they were going to redo MK1 in HD using the original footage. Maybe MK2 as well. Later they could do a new MK based on MK2's combat engine and used the aged actors from the original two games. Maybe add another 3rd special weapon and maybe 4th special weapon giving each of the characters a little more balance, 1 or two extra fatalities but the combo system should be the same and no Run button of if it must have the Run button it can only do short burst but not run straight next to the opponent. Add Goro, Kintaro, Shang Tsung MK1, and Shao Kahn MK2 for the four series of bosses you have to beat in a row. Bring back the hand breaking the bricks bonus. It was useful for a quick time out on your hands
Basically what you're asking for is the Mortal Kombat (2011) reboot, aka "MK9". It's been done and it's a great game. :cool:
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-26 @ 19:38

dr_st wrote:Interesting observations. :) I think MK1 holds this special place in your heart since it came first, and left a stronger impression. But ultimately I feel that MK2 was stronger in all aspects.

When you take into account that MK1 was the first blockbuster game where something like this was seen, the gore and extreme violence were really shocking and made a lasting impression. Come the sequel, people were already expecting it, so they may not have been as impressed. However, on its own, MK2 definitely raised the bar of graphical violence higher than MK1. Ultimately, Sub-Zero's spine rip fatality is the only one in MK1 that's really gruesome. No wonder it became legendary. But MK2 had many fatalities on the same level of violence. Heck, even some of the special moves, e.g., Kitana's fan swipe and Baraka's blade swipe, which basically slit the opponent's throat would be considered 'over the top' in MK1 timeframe. Scorpion's second fatality where he also slits your throat before cutting the torso off is also awesome. :D

Same comment about Goro v. Kintaro, really. Facing Goro for the first time, especially with his scary roars, one goes like "whoa what the hell is that how do I beat it mommy help". But he's not actually so hard. Kintaro - well, you see him the first time, and you think it's more of the same, but he is bloody hard (at least on the PC version; the arcade UI seems to have a stupid bug where you can just defeat him with jump kicks).

95DosBox wrote: In MK3 each consecutive combo hit took off less damage and each one hit damage was reduced as well which was annoying. It used to take 4 uppercuts to get to the near death ding. I think in MK3 it might have been increased to 5 or 6. They weakened Kang's fireballs and most of the actors were changed from MK1 and MK2.
The MK3 damage protection and move disabling was actually very advanced and complex, with the goal of creating a balanced game with no overpowered combos / infinites. It is quite intricate and interesting when you learn about it. They further refined it in UMK3 and MKT. You can read about many details from some of the experts in Kombat Kolumns.
95DosBox wrote:They weakened Kang's fireballs and most of the actors were changed from MK1 and MK2.
This was due to employer-employee disagreements between Midway and some of the actors. It's well-documented in various places. :)

95DosBox wrote:I was hoping they were going to redo MK1 in HD using the original footage. Maybe MK2 as well. Later they could do a new MK based on MK2's combat engine and used the aged actors from the original two games. Maybe add another 3rd special weapon and maybe 4th special weapon giving each of the characters a little more balance, 1 or two extra fatalities but the combo system should be the same and no Run button of if it must have the Run button it can only do short burst but not run straight next to the opponent. Add Goro, Kintaro, Shang Tsung MK1, and Shao Kahn MK2 for the four series of bosses you have to beat in a row. Bring back the hand breaking the bricks bonus. It was useful for a quick time out on your hands
Basically what you're asking for is the Mortal Kombat (2011) reboot, aka "MK9". It's been done and it's a great game. :cool:


I was mesmerized seeing MK1 in a theater waiting lobby the first time. I think the game cost $1.00 to play but don't quote me. I don't think it was $0.50. Do you recall? The graphics and sound effects were above anything around at the time and even Street Fighter 2 was no match with its cartoony look. The only other game that comes to me that preceded the MK gore fight style was Pitfighter but it was pathetic compared to MK1. The intro Music for MK1 is also legendary and those quick FMV intros of each character. In MK2 they decided to do away with those special FMV character intros and had no intro game theme. I think it was due to the memory space as they had no room or they would have included it I'm sure.

No you are wrong, MK2 holds the strongest in my heart. MK1 for the PC was my way of learning the game and I even had to later mirror match my controls with my joystick controls since on the PC you usually move with the keypad on the right not left like the arcade. I later remapped controls on the left and button on the right just like the arcade. There were of course many MK1 combos or techniques that no longer worked in MK2 which in some ways was a disappointment but MK1 still allowed me to practice or come up with new combo ideas despite it not being MK2 but some of the combo system was still the same and the damage percentages were also similar. 4 Uppercuts and a danger were the same in both MK1 and MK2. Roundhouse kicks were still all the same at 5 plus a danger for all characters in both MKs.

I spent probably close to $2,000 total of quarters playing it and perfecting the moves and figuring out percentages. Original play price was $0.50 at most places then I find some at $0.25 and that helped save me some money and also get some guinea pigs to help do some combo tests on my quarter. At one point I joked I could have just bought one of these machines and saved me some money. It had a better combo system, better graphics, sound, and gameplay.

At one point I excelled at it that the people who had previous mastered the game probably from playing it since MK1 days no longer could beat me at MK2 and their excuse was they thought something was wrong with the controller. They hadn't seen the combos I was able to perform done to them so they were dumbfounded. There was even one guy in my area who was known as the Tournament Champion that was well known. One day the guy needed a ride home since we were playing in the same Arcade and it closed and I said let's swing by this 7-11 to play some MK2. Well I ended up beating him a few games and this was something that never happened before and he complained the joysticks or buttons were sticking. So I volunteered to switch sides to see if it was true and there was some stickiness of the controls but not enough to cause someone as good as him to be constantly beat. In the end we just called it a stalemate of sorts since he still needed a ride back home. Of course by then he had already switched over to MK3 so most MK2 arcade machines were already being converted into MK3. Had MK2 tournaments still been held during the MK3 days I would have joined and probably won a good prize pool. Sometimes it is all about timing and unfortunately I mastered the game when it was starting on its way out. The sad thing is MK3 was a bad sequel despite what many others may think I think MK2, MK1, then MK3 is the ranking order of the trilogy. I can't comment too much on the UMK3 as I think that might have been the game I was playing that almost got into a real brawl. But the whole cartoony look, the random button combo system to perform damage, the unbalanced characters and weakening of certain ones and moves being altered or damage percentages changed to favor random button combo moves causing more damage just made the game overall a poor experience and a weak sequel. I think MK3 caused the downfall of the classic MK. They could have improved MK3 and brought all the MK1 and MK2 characters and not changed the look of it. There was something about the realistic digitized video capturing of the real actors that MK3 lacked and MK4 was some full CGI 3D dodge game I never understood what was the point and most of the time no one was playing it at the arcades not like the MK2 days when you'd see quarters splashed on the glass screen with people in line watching and waiting.


I'm just going from analyzing the fatalities from both that had the most impact. I studied the game down to the damage percentages of every move so even fatalities had a psychological impact to your opponent.

Sub-zero: Head ripped with spine still connected - almost like Predator style if you think about it.

Kano: Heart ripped out and still beating sound effect (almost forgot about that one)

Baraka: Dual Blade impalement seems to be the most gruesome with them in the air still jerking slightly and yelping in agony with their final breath.

Jax: Head smash deserves some credit still but maybe if they added the the arms torn off first then Jax gets closer and smashes the head right after. Now that would be impactful.

Cage: Does the Splits to the ground and three Triple nutcracker punches to the nads then straight into the single uppercut head pops off flying into the air. JCVD does his famous round house kick to the airborne head and it goes flying across the screen then rolling on the ground blood dripping from the bottom into a pool of blood and then Cage take a wide stance and takes off the shades and winks and smiles. But using the real Jean Claude Van Damme instead of Daniel Pesina as Cage for the game would have been epic.

The other fatalities you mentioned yes had they been introduced during MK1 at that time it might have been just as shocking on first show but after a dozen or more times you realize the purest and best are the ones that still enjoy and those are the ones I outlined even after so many years haven't seen it done repeatedly they still will strike a nerve of enjoyment to see.

I would say it's easier to beat Kintaro and Shao Kahn in MK2 at least for me on the Highest Difficulty setting on the Arcade version with all the characters than beating Goro and Shang Tsung in MK1 with all the characters.

As for as jump kicking Kintaro in MK2. He will catch you and body slam you if you're randomly hopping at him. Also his fireballs are great jugglers if you get caught it can juggle you with two of them and maybe add on an Air Stomp on top of you as your getting up. But Kintaro is easily defeated and it helps to have Turn Around Kicks whereas in MK1 you could only kick from one side and once you jump over the opponent you were vulnerable once you passed over their head.

MK3's combo system was ridiculous because remembering a sequence of random button presses to create a combo was plain dumb and does not involve true skill. The MK2 combo system was fine and even adding the run button to do limited distance rushes would be effective but not enough to run up to the opponent and touch them. It should have been some sort of 1/4 screen dash if you were far away and the meter would run out quick. A lot people did use this MK3 Run button as a let's throw people around technique which I've also used in a combo and in one instance a real human opponent wanted to get into a real fight it was funny. Security team came down to break it up before it got to real blows.

The PC version is almost the same as the Arcade version with one notable exception that always annoyed me. You cannot do the Scorpion Turn Around Kick-Teleport Punch-Spear-Uppercut Combo because some mistake on the distance on the PC version's screen width prevents it.

Also you are wrong, Mortal Kombat (2011) reboot, aka "MK9" is not what I was looking for as I'm talking about them rescanning the original images from MK1 and MK2 actors, redoing the special effects in HD matching the same look. Backgrounds and everything the same but of course upped to HD resolution. So everything is the same look except sharper. Just like a DVD movie vs a Blu-ray movie. They are just rescanning the same film and digitizing it so the movie hasn't changed it's just sharper in every way. Also I'm talking about even keeping the 2D side scrolling style and not altering it to 3D or adding any RUN button or fake random button combo into it.

They had thought about doing it but the cancelled the project. It would have been MK1 and MK2 HD. Everything would be instead of 480i SD which I assume was TV resolution then. But up it to 1080P HD or better yet if the original footage can be even scanned higher at 4K resolution and ported to the PC and all gaming consoles that can be networked to play together and not isolated from each other's gaming servers that would be the ultimate MK1 and MK2 HD classic gaming experience. But I would use a computer keyboard since it's so much easier to control and less fatigue than the arcade joystick.
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby dr_st » 2017-7-27 @ 07:45

95DosBox wrote:The intro Music for MK1 is also legendary and those quick FMV intros of each character. In MK2 they decided to do away with those special FMV character intros and had no intro game theme. I think it was due to the memory space as they had no room or they would have included it I'm sure.
Yes, the little FMVs were cool indeed. But MK2 does have intro music.

95DosBox wrote:MK1 for the PC was my way of learning the game and I even had to later mirror match my controls with my joystick controls since on the PC you usually move with the keypad on the right not left like the arcade. I later remapped controls on the left and button on the right just like the arcade.
Actually, the original control scheme for MK1 and MK2 PC was designed to match the Arcade controls as close as possible. You are supposed to use the left hand for movement (arrow keys or SZXC) and the right hand for the 5 buttons (Pad7, Pad9, Pad1, Pad3, Pad5 or UINMJ). However, many people, myself included, did not understand this, or perhaps found the reverse way (use keypad for movement, and Home/End/Pgup/Pgdn for attacks) more comfortable. So that's how I play it too. :P

95DosBox wrote:I would say it's easier to beat Kintaro and Shao Kahn in MK2 at least for me on the Highest Difficulty setting on the Arcade version with all the characters than beating Goro and Shang Tsung in MK1 with all the characters.
I'm quite surprised to hear that, especially for someone like yourself, who is obviously a master. :) Goro is really not that hard. He is a sucker for jump kicks; even if he blocks you can usually hit him with a few jabs and jump away before he grabs you. He also forgets to block projectiles often, and can be uppercut rather effectively. Shang Tsung basically plays like any of the other characters, including Goro, so by the time you get to him, you should know how to deal with him. The only annoying things are the fireballs that you must duck under because of their massive damage, and the occasional morphing to Raiden followed by teleportation behind you. Buy you learn to expect that too.

MK2 Shao Kahn is a a joke once you figure out that you can just jump directly in front of him, duck, and uppercut him after he misses (unless he does the shoulder charge, which is random). On average you will still deplete his health this way faster than he depletes yours.

95DosBox wrote:As for as jump kicking Kintaro in MK2. He will catch you and body slam you if you're randomly hopping at him. Also his fireballs are great jugglers if you get caught it can juggle you with two of them and maybe add on an Air Stomp on top of you as your getting up. But Kintaro is easily defeated and it helps to have Turn Around Kicks whereas in MK1 you could only kick from one side and once you jump over the opponent you were vulnerable once you passed over their head.
When I play the Arcade version via MAME, it seems that 80% of the time at least, Kintaro's AI gets stuck in "dumb mode" where he tries to counter almost every jump kick with an uppercut, but the jump kick has priority, so he ends up taking punishment and losing quickly. This does not work in the PC version. There he almost always blocks, and at least 50% of the time will slam you before you get a chance to jump away. He can air grab you out of most body launching special moves without even blocking. As you said, his fireballs juggle like crazy, and his moves can often be followed with an unblockable air stomp. To defeat him you have to fight and be quick and at the tips of your toes all the time, and you can really lose an advantage you took a long time to build in like 3 seconds with how devastating his moves are.

I wonder which strategy you use to defeat Kintaro, if you claim that he is easy. :)

95DosBox wrote:Mortal Kombat (2011) reboot, aka "MK9" is not what I was looking for as I'm talking about them rescanning the original images from MK1 and MK2 actors, redoing the special effects in HD matching the same look. Backgrounds and everything the same but of course upped to HD resolution. So everything is the same look except sharper. Just like a DVD movie vs a Blu-ray movie. They are just rescanning the same film and digitizing it so the movie hasn't changed it's just sharper in every way. Also I'm talking about even keeping the 2D side scrolling style and not altering it to 3D or adding any RUN button or fake random button combo into it.

They had thought about doing it but the cancelled the project. It would have been MK1 and MK2 HD. Everything would be instead of 480i SD which I assume was TV resolution then. But up it to 1080P HD or better yet if the original footage can be even scanned higher at 4K resolution and ported to the PC and all gaming consoles that can be networked to play together and not isolated from each other's gaming servers that would be the ultimate MK1 and MK2 HD classic gaming experience. But I would use a computer keyboard since it's so much easier to control and less fatigue than the arcade joystick.
Whatever they thought about doing, I'm glad they did MK9 instead. :) Having the same game with just sharper graphics can only take you so far. There is only so much upscaling you can do, and the original footage they had may not be adequate for full HD quality (that's assuming they even have it still, and wouldn't get into legal trouble with the actors/artists for reusing it). And even if you just had the magical 100% authentic original MK upscaled to Full HD, it's still the same game, just upscaled to full HD. I'd rather play a new and awesome game which is what MK9 was. I can always play the originals if I want to. It does not bother me that they are of lower visual quality.
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-27 @ 17:18

https://www.mksecrets.net/umk3/eng/umk3 ... yguide.php

I took a look at the link you provided. By the time UMK3 was out with a ROM swap. Most people were on their way to other Arcade Games. This could have been the result of the home game console market really picking up steam and people staying home more. Also since MK3 disappointed a lot of people I can't see even if UMK3 had come out really changing the opinion of the game much. Had they removed the random tap tap tap button combos which required no skill but memorizing the sequence but instead stuck to the combo style of MK2 and retained the full size digitized graphics of MK2 and just expanded more characters that actually fit in the realm of the MK1 and MK2 feel it probably would have surpassed MK2 and been a true successor. It could have been called MK2 Turbo or Ultimate MK2. There wasn't anything wrong with MK2 for the most part. Only a few characters like Reptile, Baraka, Cage, Shang Tsung and maybe Raiden could have added some more special moves that were useful to balance out the characters against the stronger ones.

MK3 I felt went with not just a cartoony look but added characters that made no sense. Let me put a Native American Nightwolf in here, Kurtis Stryker, and Kabal really seemed out of place. Sheeva was basically a female Goro, and Motaro was supposed to be a Kintaro replacement.

UMK3 added three new members Ermac, Noob Saibot (existed in MK2), and Rain but I'm not sure how I feel about those characters. Rain seems to be one of the better of the three from rewatching footage of them.

The Run button could have remained in place but just not be abused so you can run up to your opponent and touch them but a way to say avoid airborne obstacles from landing on you by allowing speed bursts horizontally but stop about 3 character lengths short of the opponent so it couldn't be abused as a get in close and throw your opponent cheat tactic. Turtling sucks but this was worse.

dr_st wrote:
95DosBox wrote:The intro Music for MK1 is also legendary and those quick FMV intros of each character. In MK2 they decided to do away with those special FMV character intros and had no intro game theme. I think it was due to the memory space as they had no room or they would have included it I'm sure.
Yes, the little FMVs were cool indeed. But MK2 does have intro music.


Yes I don't recall it being as extensive as that moonlight sequence in MK1. I do remember the game going into demo mode showing bits of the gameplay. If you call that short intro sequence with the lightning bolt and a few others before the gameplay footage then that's pretty barren. But I think the DEMO intro was more about luring in the spectators. The DCS Sound System was pretty awesome. I can't recall Street Fighter 2 or any other Arcade Machine at the that time to be as impressive.

95DosBox wrote:MK1 for the PC was my way of learning the game and I even had to later mirror match my controls with my joystick controls since on the PC you usually move with the keypad on the right not left like the arcade. I later remapped controls on the left and button on the right just like the arcade.
Actually, the original control scheme for MK1 and MK2 PC was designed to match the Arcade controls as close as possible. You are supposed to use the left hand for movement (arrow keys or SZXC) and the right hand for the 5 buttons (Pad7, Pad9, Pad1, Pad3, Pad5 or UINMJ). However, many people, myself included, did not understand this, or perhaps found the reverse way (use keypad for movement, and Home/End/Pgup/Pgdn for attacks) more comfortable. So that's how I play it too. :P


I had it set up like this for Left hand movements:
W = Up
A = Left
D = Right
X = Down

Right Hand as follows for the buttons:
Numeric KeyPad
7 = High Punch
1 = Low Punch
5 = Block
9 = High Kick
3 = Low Kick

0 = Run

This setup I also use for Mame to play the MK2 Arcade and also MK1 and MK3 although I have to choose the Insert key for the Run button.

The default setups for MK1 and MK2 PC were not the best or optimal in my opinion. Mine mirrors as close as possible the hand relation on the actual Arcade Machine. Originally the game controls I think were reversed on the PC but I could be wrong as I always changed it to these. I also use these movement controls for my other games.

Older PC games tended to use the Numeric Keypad for directional controls so sometimes it's back to the old numeric keypad for old school unconfigurable games.

95DosBox wrote:I would say it's easier to beat Kintaro and Shao Kahn in MK2 at least for me on the Highest Difficulty setting on the Arcade version with all the characters than beating Goro and Shang Tsung in MK1 with all the characters.
I'm quite surprised to hear that, especially for someone like yourself, who is obviously a master. :) Goro is really not that hard. He is a sucker for jump kicks; even if he blocks you can usually hit him with a few jabs and jump away before he grabs you. He also forgets to block projectiles often, and can be uppercut rather effectively. Shang Tsung basically plays like any of the other characters, including Goro, so by the time you get to him, you should know how to deal with him. The only annoying things are the fireballs that you must duck under because of their massive damage, and the occasional morphing to Raiden followed by teleportation behind you. Buy you learn to expect that too.

MK2 Shao Kahn is a a joke once you figure out that you can just jump directly in front of him, duck, and uppercut him after he misses (unless he does the shoulder charge, which is random). On average you will still deplete his health this way faster than he depletes yours.


Yes but there are also other ways to beat him and using the special moves. It was harder to chain combo in MK1 unless you happened to juggle Goro in the corner. Kintaro you can chain combo quite easily when he's goofing around hopping all over the place. Goro really makes you pay for one single move whereas even the highest damage MK2 character you can pay back the same amount of damage in some cases for one of his. But beating Shao Kahn with all the characters is less challenging than beating Goro with all characters. Shang Tsung is a joke in both games. Don't forget there were also double match ups in MK1 that was removed in MK2. But again my love is for MK2 and MK1 I'll have to replay again to refresh my memory. But definitely the lack of Turn Around Kick in MK1 proves more challenging. I suppose an updated MK1 could include a Turn Around Kick and not really affect the gameplay too much.

95DosBox wrote:As for as jump kicking Kintaro in MK2. He will catch you and body slam you if you're randomly hopping at him. Also his fireballs are great jugglers if you get caught it can juggle you with two of them and maybe add on an Air Stomp on top of you as your getting up. But Kintaro is easily defeated and it helps to have Turn Around Kicks whereas in MK1 you could only kick from one side and once you jump over the opponent you were vulnerable once you passed over their head.
When I play the Arcade version via MAME, it seems that 80% of the time at least, Kintaro's AI gets stuck in "dumb mode" where he tries to counter almost every jump kick with an uppercut, but the jump kick has priority, so he ends up taking punishment and losing quickly. This does not work in the PC version. There he almost always blocks, and at least 50% of the time will slam you before you get a chance to jump away. He can air grab you out of most body launching special moves without even blocking. As you said, his fireballs juggle like crazy, and his moves can often be followed with an unblockable air stomp. To defeat him you have to fight and be quick and at the tips of your toes all the time, and you can really lose an advantage you took a long time to build in like 3 seconds with how devastating his moves are.

I wonder which strategy you use to defeat Kintaro, if you claim that he is easy. :)


Yes it is easy if you practice it. Each character beats him differently at least that's the way I like to do it. You could struggle doing it the harder way by not taking advantage of each character's strengths. I'll give you a hint. Don't go to him let him come to you. He'll end up doing something stupid if you allow it or you make him chase you. It's all about timing and striking with massive combos when you make him pay since his strikes are like massive damage combos when they connect. I'm not sure if the Left Side player beating Kintaro and Shao Kahn is identical. I don't think I ever practiced on the Left side too much against the Bosses. They may play the same then I'm okay but as far as the computers on the right side they can be nasty. Perhaps one day I will record them in Mame and upload it to youtube to see if it gets any hits. If you want to upload some of your gameplay footage I could give you some tips if I saw what you were doing right or wrong. But sometimes revealing all the secrets could be a disadvantage as well. :lol: Each character beats Kintaro slightly different. I'd still like to see MK2 Arcade online play for PC to PC or Game consoles for some online tournament pool prize. Similar to those Starcraft 1 Korean Tournaments that is almost like watching a Prize Fight. Of course the MK2 tournaments will be over much quicker.

95DosBox wrote:Mortal Kombat (2011) reboot, aka "MK9" is not what I was looking for as I'm talking about them rescanning the original images from MK1 and MK2 actors, redoing the special effects in HD matching the same look. Backgrounds and everything the same but of course upped to HD resolution. So everything is the same look except sharper. Just like a DVD movie vs a Blu-ray movie. They are just rescanning the same film and digitizing it so the movie hasn't changed it's just sharper in every way. Also I'm talking about even keeping the 2D side scrolling style and not altering it to 3D or adding any RUN button or fake random button combo into it.

They had thought about doing it but the cancelled the project. It would have been MK1 and MK2 HD. Everything would be instead of 480i SD which I assume was TV resolution then. But up it to 1080P HD or better yet if the original footage can be even scanned higher at 4K resolution and ported to the PC and all gaming consoles that can be networked to play together and not isolated from each other's gaming servers that would be the ultimate MK1 and MK2 HD classic gaming experience. But I would use a computer keyboard since it's so much easier to control and less fatigue than the arcade joystick.
Whatever they thought about doing, I'm glad they did MK9 instead. :) Having the same game with just sharper graphics can only take you so far. There is only so much upscaling you can do, and the original footage they had may not be adequate for full HD quality (that's assuming they even have it still, and wouldn't get into legal trouble with the actors/artists for reusing it). And even if you just had the magical 100% authentic original MK upscaled to Full HD, it's still the same game, just upscaled to full HD. I'd rather play a new and awesome game which is what MK9 was. I can always play the originals if I want to. It does not bother me that they are of lower visual quality.


Well that's the idea they would negotiate with the actors to use MK1 and MK2 original footage if needed. But in addition they would get to use them for the true MK3 successor in 4K HD as their aged versions. Now if Daniel Pesina could step aside for JCVD to play Johnny Cage like he was meant to be instead of Guile. This would be a special Mortal Kombat HD pack.

Also even if the original footage couldn't be upped to say 4K or 1080 resolution it would still be superior to what the original one had. Also you are forgetting about the frame rates. Even the frame rates could be boosted to at least 30fps or fake 60fps assuming they were using real cameras. Now if they used actual film stock then they could in theory rescan them at 4K resolution. Only the special effects would need to be updated without varying off too much from the original look. Everything would look sharp. Also the sound effects could be remastered using source materials or redone and I doubt those are lost. The original MK Sound Track CD still exists so there must be a master source for all those original sound effects safely stored or a way to recreate them at Higher Fidelity. Back then they compressed the video and audio a lot. With more space today maybe the HD update could be as big as 1GB or even 10GB depending on the video quality. The FMVs could be full screen instead of that tiny box. Add 5.1 or 7.1 Audio mix with the sound tracks at Blu-ray Audio quality. I'm more inclined a ton of hard core fans will buy an original MK1, MK2, and new MK3 sequel based on the aged actors combining MK1 and MK2 games style/look/feel of the classics the way it was meant.

MK3 HD Classic Remake based on classic update characters:
Johnny Cage, Kano, Sub-zero, Sonya, Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Reptile, Goro, Shang Tsung, Kung Lao, Kitana, Jax, Mileena, Baraka, Kintaro, Shao Kahn. Green Liu Kang, Flame Liu Kang, Smoke, Jade, and Noob Saibot.

That should cover all the characters combined from MK1 and MK2 classic into MK3 HD Classic remake. These games would be bundled with MK1 HD and MK2 HD. This will be a hotcake seller if it ever was created. Most version of MK1 and MK2 at the time were inferior to the Arcade version so even the Arcade versions updated in true HD would be a bonus with MK3 HD classic remake.

MK9 can still exist and there's no reason it doesn't. But if you had a choice between rewatching a movie in DVD or Blu-ray quality which would you chose?

:cool:
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby dr_st » 2017-7-27 @ 19:02

95DosBox wrote:Yes I don't recall it being as extensive as that moonlight sequence in MK1. I do remember the game going into demo mode showing bits of the gameplay. If you call that short intro sequence with the lightning bolt and a few others before the gameplay footage then that's pretty barren.
It was as long, if not longer than the story introduction in MK1... Whether the tune itself is as memorable as the moonlight theme is a different question.

MK2 for PC has a "Soak test" option in its cheat menu, which replaces the intro sequence with just non-stop battles of one character against all the others in a row.

95DosBox wrote:I had it set up like this for Left hand movements:
W = Up
A = Left
D = Right
X = Down

Right Hand as follows for the buttons:
Numeric KeyPad
7 = High Punch
1 = Low Punch
5 = Block
9 = High Kick
3 = Low Kick
0 = Run
Essentially that's the original MK button configurations, except you are mixing player 1 movement buttons with player 2 control buttons. The way you had it only one player can play with the keyboard, whereas the original configuration had player 2 use the arrow keys (next to the numpad), so that two players can play on the same keyboard. Of course, you had to have a good 6KRO+ keyboard to actually register enough buttons to be playable.

95DosBox wrote:Yes but there are also other ways to beat him and using the special moves. It was harder to chain combo in MK1 unless you happened to juggle Goro in the corner. Kintaro you can chain combo quite easily when he's goofing around hopping all over the place. Goro really makes you pay for one single move whereas even the highest damage MK2 character you can pay back the same amount of damage in some cases for one of his.
Yes, I guess if he hops around a lot, then it's rather easy to put Kintaro away. What I found is that the AI is inconsistent. Sometimes he hops so much that all you have to do is counter his moves, and it's a piece of cake. On other occasions, he just does not. Instead he keeps walking towards you so you always have to be on the retreat and constantly look for the smallest opening, or dare and make the first move (which usually causes you to lose).

MK1 is generally slower, and has less juggling potential, so I get your point about Goro. Ultimately I think that if you are an expert player that has juggle combos down on automatic, it may be easier to beat Kintaro. But you have to first get to that level, which very few players do. With Goro, it does not take that much skill to defeat him, but it may not get easier even if you do have that skill.

95DosBox wrote:Yes it is easy if you practice it. Each character beats him differently at least that's the way I like to do it.
I know, that's what I like about playing against him. It's always fun. One of my favorite things it to load MK2 PC and use the cheat menu to start the battle from Kintaro, and practice will random players. :)
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Re: Versions of Mortal Kombat (1) (DOS port)

Postby 95DosBox » 2017-7-27 @ 19:46

dr_st wrote:It was as long, if not longer than the story introduction in MK1... Whether the tune itself is as memorable as the moonlight theme is a different question.

MK2 for PC has a "Soak test" option in its cheat menu, which replaces the intro sequence with just non-stop battles of one character against all the others in a row.


I do remember the silent mode where you see still Character BIOs and no animation. Perhaps the owner usually disabled the Attract Mode or went to Quiet Mode as the DCS Sound System was pretty loud during the game but of course the Vendor could adjust these levels down but we all know it is about profit.

Essentially that's the original MK button configurations, except you are mixing player 1 movement buttons with player 2 control buttons. The way you had it only one player can play with the keyboard, whereas the original configuration had player 2 use the arrow keys (next to the numpad), so that two players can play on the same keyboard. Of course, you had to have a good 6KRO+ keyboard to actually register enough buttons to be playable.


Well I used those controls for Right Side Player or AKA Player 2.

T = Up
F = Left
H = Right
B = Down

OR if you wanted more of a space gap between the two controls so you don't accidentally hit them.

U = Up
H = Left
K = Right
M = Down


For Player 1 Side you could use the same exact keys and what would happen is if you dual played and started for each characters your characters would be synchronous in movement. However to differentiate the movement of the Player 1 Left Side I changed the movements as follows but kept the buttons on the right identical.

If you use a mechanical keyboard and not a USB keyboard it can handle the N-key rollover issue better with two people playing at once. But I doubt you are going to have someone at your house playing with you both on the same keyboard but you can get a PS/2 keyboard splitter and possibly use two PS/2 keyboards but just make sure your opponent doesn't cheat by touching your keys... :angry:

The best way to do competitive play on MK2 PC or MAME would have been some sort of network interface using LAN (MK3 PC had this) or online play via IPX emulation so keyboard controls are isolated from each other and no cheating or touching the opponent's key strokes.

MK1 is generally slower, and has less juggling potential, so I get your point about Goro. Ultimately I think that if you are an expert player that has juggle combos down on automatic, it may be easier to beat Kintaro. But you have to first get to that level, which very few players do. With Goro, it does not take that much skill to defeat him, but it may not get easier even if you do have that skill.


He's easily tricked or certain moves he may or may not block or expect after. But there is a certain amount of AI intelligence to where you can't repeat the same move more than twice and not expect it to learn, defend and counter/punish you.

I know, that's what I like about playing against him. It's always fun. One of my favorite things it to load MK2 PC and use the cheat menu to start the battle from Kintaro, and practice will random players. :)


I forgot about that. I usually do use the unlimited credits cheat though at start. I guess if you aren't good enough and don't want to deal with the time to get to Kintaro that is a way to get quick practice.

Did you try out the Scorpion screen combo I mentioned? It won't work on the PC version but it will on the MAME.
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