To be clear, Quake on the DOS platform had a fairly fleeting life.

Quake, for example, aged really badly IMO. What saved it were its gameplay and continued support. I prefer Doom's graphics to Quake.

Interesting. I like how the original, low-res non-accelerated Quake looks like. The problem with most source ports is that they try to "improve" the game instead of fixing bugs and compatibility problems. That's why I decided to start my own 😀

Quake didn't age badly at all. Its lightmapped solid levels hold up well for a game from 1996, a year where there were many MANY wonky and shaky polygonal vertexlit stuff.

The alias-powered animation jobs on the monsters are nice too, giving them weight. That's another thing many 3d games didn't do well then (not even i76 's cutscenes lol)

Flashback CD has remade cut scenes wich are ugly and have no that charm.

ColdBrain wrote:

Quake, for example, aged really badly IMO. What saved it were its gameplay

Quake was popular for 2-3 years due to multiplayer, design style, mods support, innovation.

I would argue that Quake remains relevant due to the wide availability of advanced engine remakes. Quake on DOS is pretty limited, though.

GLQuake looked like garbage back then and it still does today, but the software renderer, that's a different animal.

I was thinking of Tenebrae.

thecrankyhermit wrote:

PC ports interest me too, but only if - The PC version has supplanted the original in popularity and/or availability (e.g. GOG s […]
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And I think the original poster was asking about later PC versus earlier PC versions, not PC ports versus original versions on other systems.

PC ports interest me too, but only if -
The PC version has supplanted the original in popularity and/or availability (e.g. GOG selling the DOS version of Sid Meier's Pirates! but not the original C64 version)
The PC version destroys something artistic about the original (not asking about preference or nostalgia, just asking if the original had art in any form that got removed)
And that you have specific examples. Knowing that games meant for Commodore computers tended to lose something in translation is generally useful, but which ones particularly suffered, and how? Just as importantly, which ones were or are currently more popular on DOS in spite of being worse?

All that applies to PC re-releases too. Just replace each instance of "PC version" with "new version."

Lost Vikings II, Lemmings, and Space Quest 4 are really good examples. Lo Wang's nitpicks count too, except Ultimate Doom which AFAIK does not remove anything, just adds something that wasn't needed.

FWIW, I am a U.S. gamer and have only ever owned consoles and gaming PCs that ran DOS or Windows. But I'm sort of on a retro-purism kick, where I'm using emulators to replay my games in a form closer to their original intent, when applicable. Some time ago my philosophy was "Play the best version available!", so my LucasArts would have been Maniac Mansion Deluxe, Zak McKracken FM-Towns, Indy3 FM-Towns, Loom VGA CD, Monkey Island VGA CD, and so forth. But I'm seeing merit in respecting the designers' original intents, not to mention getting a correct sense of progression through the years. So I want to know where they differ from what I'm used to, and replay accordingly. So I replayed Maniac Mansion and Zak McKracken in their C64 versions, seeing the artwork as originally intended, and the games actually make a bit more sense this way. Stuff like the layout of Zak's house seem strange when rendered in 256 color high resolution, but make sense as necessary compromises in blocky 16 color composite video. There are little things, like a joke in Maniac Mansion that only works because of a C64 engine limitation. Playing the PCJr version of King's Quest was an interesting experience too; there's ambient sounds like birds chirping and rivers flowing that you don't get in the DOS version. The interface is pleasantly minimalistic, well suited to such a simple game, and shows that the AGI re-release is overdeveloped and more complex than King's Quest really needs. Things like the interpreter's terseness, which I originally found frustrating, make more sense now; the DOS version uses modal AGI dialog windows that were developed for far more verbose titles like Space Quest and King's Quest III, but the original version just printed lines in the console like text adventures did, and the necessary terseness makes more sense presented this way.

I used to consider DOS ports to be ugly and shrill bastard children of the "true originals" for those games originally developed for the Atari (8-bit and ST), Commodore (64 & Amiga) and Apple (II, IIgs and Mac) computers of the 1980s. I have even owned several of those PC-incompatible machines. Then I discovered the PC's true strength, even when dealing with the ports. Load times, or the lack thereof, compared to the floppy protected games of every other platform.

Azarien wrote:

Interesting. I like how the original, low-res non-accelerated Quake looks like. The problem with most source ports is that they try to "improve" the game instead of fixing bugs and compatibility problems. That's why I decided to start my own 😀

That's not really a "problem", more like "design choice". It gets problematic only when the whole community is based around these graphic improvements.

I'll play all of Chocolate Doom, ZDoom, PrBoom, Doomsday, Zandronum, each having its purpose. I'm enthusiastic about your project, though, because it's great to be able to run Quake "as it was meant to be" without needing to emulate a machine. Hence why the original ID Software team and their work passed into legend. The vast majority of the gaming developers did not have such foresight.

Tertz wrote:

Quake was popular for 2-3 years due to multiplayer, design style, mods support, innovation.

I lumped "multiplayer" and "innovation" into "gameplay", sorry. 😜

Great Hierophant wrote:

I used to consider DOS ports to be ugly and shrill bastard children of the "true originals" for those games originally developed for the Atari (8-bit and ST), Commodore (64 & Amiga) and Apple (II, IIgs and Mac) computers of the 1980s

I actually kind of felt the same way about OCS/ECS Amiga games, which I considered mostly worthless and abominable, even though the platform itself was amazing and a personal favorite among the 16-bitters.

Great Hierophant wrote:

Then I discovered the PC's true strength, even when dealing with the ports. Load times, or the lack thereof, compared to the floppy protected games of every other platform.

I emulate everything. What load times? :P

Though I will admit swapping disks is a pain when I'm used to having everything on a hard drive. Ultima V on Apple IIe is insane. I'm rather thankful that all of Sierra's games post Space Quest, and LucasArts from Indy3 onwards, targeted DOS.

One needs to endure load times with cycle-accurate C64 emulation that is necessary when using original copy-protected disk images. Which I do, because I cannot stand the sight of ugly, filthy, disgusting, atrocious, vomit-inducing cracker graffiti.

thecrankyhermit wrote:

Playing the PCJr version of King's Quest was an interesting experience too; there's ambient sounds like birds chirping and rivers flowing that you don't get in the DOS version.

The Apple IIgs version of King's Quest I had different introductory music in the beginning (not Greensleeves).
About 2:20 into this YouTube video of the Apple IIgs version you can hear the intro music.
What are some DOS games I might have been playing wrong?
The Apple IIgs version also had some sound effects that weren't in the PC version.
For example, just before 19 minutes into the video you can hear the wolf "bark."

NewRisingSun wrote:

One needs to endure load times with cycle-accurate C64 emulation that is necessary when using original copy-protected disk images. Which I do, because I cannot stand the sight of ugly, filthy, disgusting, atrocious, vomit-inducing cracker graffiti.

Alt+W = Warp Mode

thecrankyhermit wrote:

NewRisingSun wrote:

One needs to endure load times with cycle-accurate C64 emulation that is necessary when using original copy-protected disk images. Which I do, because I cannot stand the sight of ugly, filthy, disgusting, atrocious, vomit-inducing cracker graffiti.

Alt+W = Warp Mode

I can't seem to find the Alt key on my C64! PC compatibles may have their VICEs, but a 300 byte default transfer speed for a disk drive is not among them. :p

thecrankyhermit wrote:

Alt+W = Warp Mode

I know that. It's still slow for some games, and most importantly, you must know when to turn it off without missing the first few notes of the title screen. I usually help myself by loading a state saved right after loading finishes.