That's what I've been doing, but it isn't good enough. Because if there is another program that I have to run (like TPPATCH or for Duke 3D, the NOBLF thingy, then I first have to make VDMSound work, but I want to set up the settings (because I don't think the VESA support is checked by default). I also have to be in DOS in full screen and be able to run the NOBLF. Read my long post again (ARGGHH! 😜 ), to see what I mean. I have been TRYING to use VDMSound by right clicking, but then it automatically runs the program (or trys to) and I have no chance to run NOBLF.

Edit: Actually, I think I have a handle on VDMSlaunchpad now. Sorry for the whining. 😁 But, OH CRAP! I don't think there is anyway that the NOBLF thing will work for me, because IT is what causes the screen to shut off. I just tested Duke 3D without it on, and it works, but CRAPPY graphics. And no matter what, no sound. How can I get sound to work? And is there no hope for me to get Duke 3D to work with VESA 2.0 graphics? Even that Ken Silverman's page says if your graphics card can't support it, it won't help. Oh no, I think that's me!

I have a GeForce 4 MX 440. So has anyone gotten Duke 3D to work with sound and 800 x 600 resolution? I think there's nothing I can do... Please prove me wrong... 🙁 😠 😕

Snover wrote:

THERE IS!??!? *runs to find it*[/B]

http://www.advsys.net/ken/build.htm

Duke Nukem 3D "echo" crash patch (04/18/2000-04/26/2000) Has Duke Nukem 3D been crashing predictably whenever you enter certain […]
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Duke Nukem 3D "echo" crash patch (04/18/2000-04/26/2000)
Has Duke Nukem 3D been crashing predictably whenever you enter certain places in the game? It happens mostly on "SB Live!" PCI sound cards, but may occur on others as well. Here are some examples of places that crash:

Episode 1, Level 2: In the sewer (behind the toilet and under the blown up building)
Episode 1, Level 3: Behind the church (after the cross inverts and room turns red)
Episode 1, Level 4: Crashes immediately!
I made a little program that fixes this problem. It disables the "echo" effect by modifying some bytes in DUKE3D.EXE. This patch works for v1.3D (shareware & registered) and v1.5 (Atomic Edition). If you are patching v1.3d (registered), please be aware that this will require you to reinstall from the original CD if you purchase the Plutonium PAK at some point in the future.

Known .EXE offsets to the start of this 5-byte sequence: DUKE3D.EXE from: EXE File size: Hex offset to 5-byte signature (0x2D,0xE8,0x03,0x00,0x00):
v1.0 (Shareware) 1,066,391 bytes 0x74A29
v1.1 (Shareware) 1,076,339 bytes 0x75249
v1.3D (Shareware) 1,178,963 bytes 0x89090
v1.3D (Registered) 1,179,131 bytes 0x89040
v1.4 (Plutonium Pak) 1,240,151 bytes 0x87343
v1.5 (Atomic Edition) 1,246,231 bytes 0x8FE51
v1.5 (Australian version) 1,246,231 bytes 0x8FE51
v1.5 (Walmart version) 1,246,439 bytes 0x8FE81

If your version is not listed here, UPGRADE NOW!

Or even better, help me find the offset in your EXE! Look for this 5-byte sequence: 0x2D,0xE8,0x03,0x00,0x00 and replace it with 0xB8,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00. There will likely be more than one occurence, but you must only patch one (usually the first occurence). If you see a 0xE8 byte soon after the sequence, then it's a good sign. (Sometimes, Watcom C inserts instructions in between, so don't be alarmed if it's not right after the 5-byte sequence)

Shadow Warrior "echo" crash patch (04/28/2000)
Exact same fix as above, but for Shadow Warrior! Use this only if Shadow Warrior crashes in these places (among others):

Episode 1, Level 1: In the pool
Episode 1, Level 1: On the train tracks (near the end of the level)
This program supports ONLY version v1.2 (shareware) and v1.2 (registered) None of the 3dfx versions are currently supported. As a side effect, reverberation will be disabled. If you'd like to make your own patch for a version of Shadow Warrior not supported, look at the instructions at the top of my C file.

This is what dyinginformant is talking about... I don't think it has anything to do with CLI2NOP, Snover, but you never know...

Correction. That is what I am talking about. 😜

And in the above post, this is what I am complaining about:

"NOLFB does not add any new VESA modes to your computer! In fact it does just the opposite. If your graphics adapter does not support standard VESA modes (such as 640x480x8) in any DOS application, then this patch will not help you. "

Now I don't know for sure what my graphics adapter can and cannot support. I know that when I set basic VESA mode in VDMSound I could run Duke with the basic (ugly) graphics, but when I enabled NOLFB, the screen went into safe mode (not off, but the light went orange and nothing on screen was shown). I can test some other sound options (are you SURE I'm not supposed to have sound enabled in the setup?), but for the visuals, it seems it's crap or it's nothing. 🙁

Please help me Duke 3D/GeForce 4/XPers. 😀

dyinginformant wrote:

Now I don't know for sure what my graphics adapter can and cannot support. I know that when I set basic VESA mode in VDMSound I could run Duke with the basic (ugly) graphics,...

"Basic", meaning what? 320x200? 640x480? Resolution please...

.. but when I enabled NOLFB, the screen went into safe mode (not off, but the light went orange and nothing on screen was shown).

Buzz...That's a problem and it shouldn't be happening.

You're not running NOLFB while the game is set to 320x200 resolution are you?

I can test some other sound options (are you SURE I'm not supposed to have sound enabled in the setup?),

One problem at a time. You need to confirm video before running audio. That narrows down the list of potential "trouble-makers".

If you setup audio and video (changing both), then it locks up on you. What caused the lockup? Audio? Video? Both?

*deleted irrelevant text*

No, I'm using Windows XP. And I have a GeForce 4 MX card. I didn't put 2000 in my profile did I?

In the Duke3D setup, there are two graphics modes: 320x200, and Vesa 2.0. Picking Vesa 2.0 gives you a few choices up to 800 x 600. So, 320x200 (not Vesa 2.0) is what I meant by basic. I would only try to run NOLFB if I selected VESA 2.0 and I select 800x600. I have tried this, and I noticed that whether or not I run NOLFB, the screen turns off simply by selecting the VESA 2.0 graphic mode. And I don't run NOLFB if I select 320x200. That mode works okay, but yuck. 😉

I also tried 320x200 with and without sound selected in the setup (because in VESA mode the screen turns off and I can't see what happens, and there is never any sound no matter what). So, in this mode, with no sound selected, the game works. With sound selected, the game locks up when it starts (at the nuclear waste Duke 'logo' that is normally what you first see).

BTW, I have not yet tried testing sound with the dukesoundfx exe file that fixes game crashes at specific points in the game. I want to wait and see if I can PLAY the game first, in 800x600 and with sound working first. Or one step at a time, like you said.

I wonder what is wrong? How can I get the right graphics mode and sound working? For sound I have also tried different VDMSound choices. I don't know what to choose so I only changed basic options, like chossing between GM or MT-32, or choosing IRQ 5 instead of 7. Makes no difference. Still doesn't work.

Hmm. I'm going to check and see if there is supposed a new patch or driver for VESA for my graphics card. But I doubt it. I think I have all the latest drivers, but then I'm not sure when new ones come out either.

Originally posted by dyinginformant
I wish they would make it all one download and make it more userfriendly, or am I just missing something? I'm sure it's easy to use once I KNOW how to do it!

Bump for Vlad. Muahahahahah! 😁

There may be no fix for you with the GF4.

I noticed that using NOLFB with my GF4, using ANY VESA mode I would get the "Blank screen" in BUILD engine games. Using Non Vesa Modes (320X200) worked fine as always.

But using my Radeon 9700 all VESA modes all the way up to 1280X1024 (VESA 1.2) worked fine.

Seems that the GF4's can not display the VESA graphics but the GF3's can. I haven't heard too many other reports but every GF4 user I've talked to has had the NOLFB in BUILD engine "Blank screen" problem.

As for SFX in BUILD engine games THAT IS A NEGATIVE. NO GO. Cero. Nada. Zip. Zero. Forgedaboutit. Either "upgrade" to XP and use the latest VDMSound update or upgrade to a "real" gaming OS and use DOS for Duke3D. SFX will still be crappy & slow in XP even with the latest VDMSound update (and don't expect a fix either) so your best bet is real DOS.

dyinginformant wrote:

No, I'm using Windows XP. And I have a GeForce 4 MX card. I didn't put 2000 in my profile did I?

No, mixed up two different threads, disregard.

Picking Vesa 2.0 gives you a few choices up to 800 x 600. So, 320x200 (not Vesa 2.0) is what I meant by basic. ... I would only try to run NOLFB if I selected VESA 2.0 and I select 800x600.

It's also for 640x480 mode and others.

So, in this mode, with no sound selected, the game works. With sound selected, the game locks up when it starts (at the nuclear waste Duke 'logo' that is normally what you first see).

Make sure your soundcard is set to the minimum settings "SoundBlaster or compatible, 1 or 2 voices, etc..."

BTW, I have not yet tried testing sound with the dukesoundfx exe file that fixes game crashes at specific points in the game.

Correct. That only effects places where there's a "reverb" effect in the audio.

I want to wait and see if I can PLAY the game first, in 800x600 and with sound working first.

Try 640x480 mode. Also take a look at your DUKE3D.CFG file. Notice this:
--------------------------
ScreenMode = 1
ScreenWidth = 800
ScreenHeight = 600
--------------------------
You can replace the screenwidth & height manually as well. For example 1024x768.

Is it possible that you have a really old monitor that can't handle 800x600 modes? (I'm figuring not so if you're running XP).

BTW, it's precisely this kind of rigamarole that caused me to set up a dual-boot.

DosFreak:
"As for SFX in BUILD engine games THAT IS A NEGATIVE. NO GO. Cero. Nada. Zip. Zero. Forgedaboutit. Either "upgrade" to XP and use the latest VDMSound update or upgrade to a "real" gaming OS and use DOS for Duke3D. SFX will still be crappy & slow in XP even with the latest VDMSound update (and don't expect a fix either) so your best bet is real DOS."

I HAVE Windows XP. The strange thing is sound was working the other day - I think WITHOUT VDMSound running at all. Strange. Ofcourse it was kind of shakey sounding, but atleast it was something. How do I disable VDMSound to check on that again?

Nicht Sehr Gut :
"No, mixed up two different threads, disregard.
It's also for 640x480 mode and others.
Make sure your soundcard is set to the minimum settings "SoundBlaster or compatible, 1 or 2 voices, etc..." "

Again, I complain that I have a super-powerful PC, and though you can download an emulator and play games meant for a DIFFERENT system altogether, it can't handle old PC games? This is rediculous!

"Try 640x480 mode. Also take a look at your DUKE3D.CFG file. Notice this:
--------------------------
ScreenMode = 1
ScreenWidth = 800
ScreenHeight = 600
--------------------------
You can replace the screenwidth & height manually as well. For example 1024x768."

Well okay at 800x600 the monitor turns off. At 640x480 it works, but I am getting a Vsync problem (the screen is getting torn up horizontally when movement occurs). I even emailed Ken Silverman himself, and he has this exact same problem with his monitor shutting off at 800x600. He doesn't know whether it's Windows XP or the GeForce 4 card, but he thinks it's a refresh rate that's too low. As far as changing it manually, does that just affect how it's 'spread' onto the screen, or does it actually change the 'sharpness' or the resolution of it?

Is it possible that you have a really old monitor that can't handle 800x600 modes? (I'm figuring not so if you're running XP).

No. My desktop and newer games are set to the resolution after 800x600. What is it? 1024x800 or something?

BTW, it's precisely this kind of rigamarole that caused me to set up a dual-boot.

Does a dual boot really make a difference? If it's a Windows XP problem than I guess so, but if it's the graphics or sound card, the same problems are going to happen in the other OS on your system. Right? Besides, a dual boot sounds like a pain to set up.

-Nadine

BTW, just how do you put multiple quotes in one tread? Or do you do it manually in every paragraph, and just use copy and paste?

Reg. Comments: manually, but usually I don't use them at all.

DosFreak: like she said, she's using XP. (Ah, fun with gender!)

Reg. Refresh: Changing the refresh rate will just make it display at a higher framerate if possible (usually up to 120FPS, which is why saying "I R T3H L33t MY QUAKE3 RUNS @ 612348FPS!!!!!1111" is a stupid thing to say since you can't have it display any faster than your refresh rate).

Interesting that Ken is having the same problem. If you're having an ongoing dialogue with him, suggest that he come here and talk with some of us guys. It'll be a Celebrity Moment(tm)!

dyinginformant wrote:

I HAVE Windows XP.

truth5678 (who started the thread) has Windows2000 and some people are still basing their replies based on that. He was taken care of back on the 6th post. We should've closed this thread and started a new one.

Trying to solve a similar problem for two people with different systems/OS's tends to cause confusion.

The strange thing is sound was working the other day - I think WITHOUT VDMSound running at all.

Correct. WinXP has it's own "SoundBlaster" emulation built-in to the OS. Unfortunately, it's terrible (but better than nothing). They also snuck in a work-around for BUILD-type DOS audio. Even if you're using VDMSound, that's an advantage over 2000.

Ofcourse it was kind of shakey sounding, but atleast it was something. How do I disable VDMSound to check on that again?

Don't disable VDMSound. Just don't use a VDMSound shortcut for the game (or the right-click to "Run with VDMSound option). Start the game as you normally start it otherwise.

IIRC, you can even run the XP audio in tandem with VDMSound IE: you could disable the SoundBlaster emulation (allowing XP to handle the digital audio) while letting VDMSound handle MIDI.
(Of course, I can't think of a good reason to do that).

Just remember, the default SoundBlaster IRQ in XP is 5, for VDMSound, it's 7.

Again, I complain that I have a super-powerful PC, and though you can download an emulator and play games meant for a DIFFERENT system altogether, it can't handle old PC games? This is rediculous!

The great thing about the PC is that there are so many standards out there.

The worst thing about the PC is that there are so many standards out there.

When you emulate a console you have a fixed number of things to emulate. With a PC, you have a huge number of variables for memory, video formats, etc...

Well okay at 800x600 the monitor turns off.

Sorry to hear that. You may not have this as an option.

At 640x480 it works, but I am getting a Vsync problem (the screen is getting torn up horizontally when movement occurs). I even emailed Ken Silverman himself, and he has this exact same problem with his monitor shutting off at 800x600. He doesn't know whether it's Windows XP or the GeForce 4 card, but he thinks it's a refresh rate that's too low.

Hrmm. Well that's not good. Sounds like a dead end for now.

As far as changing it manually, does that just affect how it's 'spread' onto the screen, or does it actually change the 'sharpness' or the resolution of it?

You probably won't notice much of a difference beyond 800x600 as far as textures go, but polygonal rendering will be "smoothed" (antialiased) by using higher resolutions.

For example in JDoom, I'm not getting higher-resolution textures (yet), but all the structures of the map (and the map itself) look much better because they don't suffer from so much of the stair-stepping things rendered at an angle.

Also, far away objects will look much better because there are more pixels available to render "small" images.

Try to find a nice, wide-open area with lots of things at varying distances from you. Try looking around the area in the various resolutions you have. I think my favorite is the "castle at the end of the swamp/waterfall" from "Hexen". Looks dramatically better at high-resolutions.

My desktop and newer games are set to the resolution after 800x600. What is it? 1024x800 or something?

1024x768. Kind of figured that. Was taking a wild guess there...

Does a dual boot really make a difference?

Err...YES. Most of the "rules" for a DOS-based OS are very different. That's the OS on which these games were originally designed to run.

If it's a Windows XP problem than I guess so, but if it's the graphics or sound card, the same problems are going to happen in the other OS on your system. Right? ?

Maybe. Maybe not. My BLOOD runs horribly under XP. Even with NOLFB giving back my VESA, the audio still stinks. I reboot into Win98 (same hardware setup) and I can run it with every single setting maxed-out.

Basically that translates into:
Blood on XP with Sound Blaster or Compatible
(4 Voices, 8 or 11 Khz Mixing Rate)
Blood on Win98 with Sound Blaster Pro
(32 Voices,44 Khz Mixing Rate)

Besides, a dual boot sounds like a pain to set up.

If your NT-based OS is already installed, it can be. However if you're installing 2000 or XP onto a machine with a DOS-based OS, it's pretty easy. 2000/XP will even create the dual-boot menu for you.

[B]BTW, just how do you put multiple quotes in one tread? Or do you do it manually in every paragraph, and just use copy and paste?

I've been doing it manually with some cutting and pasting. Basically copying the b-quote and the /b-quote and pasting them where necessary.

🤣. You are quite the character Snover. 😁 It's not so much that we are having a continuing discussion. I emailed him and he replied back. Quite promptly too. I imagined someone like him would be very busy, or maybe he just made time for me. Hey, kind of like you guys!

Really guys, I appreciate all of your help. Other places or people whom I would try to get help from I would have to be EXTREMELY patient to get a reply, and then we would have to try something else, again and again. This is what happened with Elite Force. Here you guys are, more than one person, replying quickly and trying to help me get THREE games working at once! As well as keeping up with other people. You are all so cool. 😎 I really appreciate it. I feel like we're getting somewhere with Duke 3D. Jazz I just need to know EXACTLY what choices to choose for the patch, and SQ6 I haven't tried the current idea yet. Anyway, each thing is in it's own topic. Back to Duke...

WOW, Nicht Sehr Gut, you sure said a - um, keyboard full? (note to self: am only funny by accident, NOT on purpose 😮 ) Sorry for the confusion. But I am having the very same problem as he did. I'm not sure how to run it without VDMSound disabled. I have a shortcut made with VDMSound which makes it full screen DOS (don't know how else to get it full screen). I tried to just double click the short cut - same effect as right clciking on run with VDMSound. Also I just used the normal command prompt, so VDMSound was not running at all. I did get sound. Duke talked very scratchy and slow-speed. How can I use VDMSound AND the Windows XP DOS emulation? Or, what is this work around you speak of?

And how come you can set the resolution manually, but not the refresh rate? What about the Vsync? I don't know why VESA modes are so special - so independant. I normally just know about basic resolutions, and my monitor and graphics card can run many choices of low and high resolutions and at different refresh rates. But with these VESA modes, even with NOLFB, it has problems. Usually if I play a low -res game there will be instructions on my monitor that for a better looking display, choose the following resolutions: and it will give me some. I don't think it's worrysome, I just press the button to get the message off.

I think I know what you mean about dual booting. It's not so much how the hardware reacts to DOS, it's how hardware, and Windows XP, reacts to the simulated DOS environment. It's like it KNOWS it's not the real thing, and it wants to be mean to you or something. Dual booting may be good. But I only have Windows XP on here. I had to get it activated. I hope I don't have to uninstall it, install Windows 98 and then reinstall XP. Heck I don't even know if it's possible (THANK YOU lousy cheap piraters who make my life harder). However, I may need to learn more about my hardware. If hardware will be a problem, going to the trouble of setting up a dual boot won't do me much good unless I ALSO want to install an older sound card and video card. This is very annoying, and I hate all manufacturers who kiss the past good bye and make it harder for us to enjoy the oldies. It's not like we don't buy new games too! Okay, so the newest game I have is Elite Force, and the other newest one is Unreal (normal Unreal). I have some shopping to do I guess.

I do want to take advantage of my powerful PC, but I am aggivated to see all these old game boxes in my closet that are a thing of the past! I won't let my money go to waste (from way back when), or the sweet classic gameplay. BTW, is there a step by step tutorial on setting up a dual boot when XP is already installed?

Oh geez, sorry for making you read all that. Here's the nutshell version for you: Snover's funny, I love you guys, don't know how to run sound with VDMSound enabled but not in use? or workaround, I hate companies that hate the past, and I wonder about a dual boot guide. Whew!

-Nadine

Snover wrote:

(Ah, fun with gender!)

Unlikely as it may seem, we have a female reader! Incredible! Welcome, all.. er.. one.. of you! 😀

Originally posted by dyinginformant […]
Show full quote

Originally posted by dyinginformant

I'm not sure how to run Duke3D without VDMSound disabled. I have a shortcut made with VDMSound which makes it full screen DOS (don't know how else to get it full screen). I tried to just double click the short cut - same effect as right clciking on run with VDMSound. Also I just used the normal command prompt, so VDMSound was not running at all. I did get sound. Duke talked very scratchy and slow-speed. How can I use VDMSound AND the Windows XP DOS emulation? Or, what is this work around you speak of?

Okay, using the command prompt without loading VDMSound will use XP's NTVDM sound emulation. Which uses SFX: Port 220 IRQ5 DMA 1 MUSIC=Soundblaster.

Now, if you installed VDMSound but if you DID NOT install all of the VDMSound Updates (Specifically UPDATE 1) then SFX will not work with VDMSOUND. This may be your problem...perhaps you did not install it or it did not install properly?

And how come you can set the resolution manually, but not the refresh rate? What about the Vsync? I don't know why VESA modes are so special - so independant. I normally just know about basic resolutions, and my monitor and graphics card can run many choices of low and high resolutions and at different refresh rates. But with these VESA modes, even with NOLFB, it has problems. Usually if I play a low -res game there will be instructions on my monitor that for a better looking display, choose the following resolutions: and it will give me some. I don't think it's worrysome, I just press the button to get the message off.

heh. Before VESA Video modes were even worse. VESA was introduced to set a standard. Unfortunately by default using your Video Card's VESA driver it defaults to 60hz and usually with DOS games the only way to up the Refresh rate is through your monitor or using a utility included with the card/driver. Unfortunately due to the way that we are hax0ring the VESA with the NOLFB hack I cannot find a good refresh rate prog that works in NTVDM. (Currently looking). Most DOS refresh rate progs look for VESA 2/3 and error out if they detect Vesa 1.2 (which the NOLFB hack enables).

dyinginformant wrote:

🤣. You are quite the character Snover. 😁

Yeah, even his parole officer likes him...Oh wait..Is it ok to mention that?

It's not so much that we are having a continuing discussion. I emailed him and he replied back. Quite promptly too.

Good to hear. Apparently there was a nasty "exchange" some time back about the BUILD games. Apparently, there were people writing him and demanding that he fix various bugs within Duke Nukem 3D, BLOOD, etc... He was a little ticked as he had not written those games but the "engine"
behind them and apparently it grew into a nasty argument from there.

Really guys, I appreciate all of your help.

Then where's my hug? Ok, I'm kidding.

Back to Duke...

WOW, Nicht Sehr Gut, you sure said a - um, keyboard full?

Ok. To simplify, I will type all future replies in a mixture of Latin and Sanskrit.

Ok, I'm kidding again.

I'm not sure how to run it without VDMSound disabled.

Eh? That apparently means how to run it with VDMSound. Triple-negative. My English teacher would pitch a fit.

I have a shortcut made with VDMSound which makes it full screen DOS (don't know how else to get it full screen).

No, just right-click on the game's .EXE or .BAT and choose "Properties". Click on the tab named "Screen" and choose "Full-screen", then OK.

I tried to just double click the short cut - same effect as right clicking on run with VDMSound.

If you're clicking on the .VLP shortcut, that's expected. If you're clicking on the game's .BAT or .EXE file, that's not right. If needed, temporarily rename your .VLP shortcuts.

Also I just used the normal command prompt, so VDMSound was not running at all. I did get sound. Duke talked very scratchy and slow-speed.

That's the built-in emulation. Like I said, it's poor.

How can I use VDMSound AND the Windows XP DOS emulation?

That depends on the specific configuration you're trying to run. Basically you disable whatever function the VDMSound shortcut that you want the XP emulation to handle. You just have remember to match up what settings the game wants with what your computer has (IE:Built-in SB emulation uses IRQ5, the Default for VDMSound SB emulation is IRQ7.

Or, what is this work around you speak of?

It's built-in to the OS. Not something an end-user can access. Vlad, however was able to use it to allow VDMSound to play Digital audio for BUILD games.

And how come you can set the resolution manually, but not the refresh rate? What about the Vsync?

Basically, because it's DOS you're dealing with. DosFreak may come up with a better answer, but it won't change anything.

[B] I don't know why VESA modes are so special...

Because they ran into a burning building to save my puppy, and I owe them everything because of that.

Ok, that was another lie. And completely irrational as well...

I don't think there's an answer that can appease you here. These all have to do with DOS standards on the PC, which goes all the way back to technology from the 1970's. The older thing you tend to run, the more frequently you'll tend to come across these technical issues.

[B]It's not so much how the hardware reacts to DOS, it's how hardware, and Windows XP, reacts to the simulated DOS environment. It's like it KNOWS it's not the real thing, and it wants to be mean to you or something....

Yep, and when you're not around it connects to other computers on the Internet and starts bad-mouthing you; spreading rumors and innuendo, as well as using your login name to access various porn sites, then trolls various Macintosh forums starting flamefests before bailing out with comments like "YOU ALL SUXORS!!"

No, ignore that irrelevant tirade above. It was written by my Win98SE out of jealousy over WinXP.

Actually, it more like an "environment" issue. A fish in a lake may be fine. Place the fish on land, and it's in trouble. The fish is your DOS-game, the lake is DOS, and the land is WinXP. The emulation of DOS within XP (the Command Prompt) is like a shallow puddle of water on the land: It's better than nothing for the fish, but it's not enough. The best place for the fish is the lake, where it was originally meant to be.

The best place for your DOS-game is on the hardware/OS for which it was originally designed. Since that's not an option here, we try to find ways to make XP emulate the original environment(you can think of that as a fancy aquarium if you want).

*blech* I hope that's enough. I've overdosed on analogies...

[B] Dual booting may be good. But I only have Windows XP on here. I had to get it activated. I hope I don't have to uninstall it, install Windows 98 and then reinstall XP.

Well that would be the easiest to explain, but it would probably be better if you used a partition manager to make some space available on your drive for another OS.

[B] Heck I don't even know if it's possible

If you have something like an "emachine" PC, it might not be... They use a non-standard "restore-CD" that has no flexibility on installations.

[B] THANK YOU lousy cheap piraters who make my life harder

This is so as to not have them confused with the high-quality expensive pirates who make our lives easier.

Sorry, I'm in a bit of a Monty Python mood right now...

On a serious note, if you haven't already done so, copy all the WPA.* files inside your windows/system32 directory to a floppy and store it in a safe place. That way, if you had to re-install you can copy them back after a new install without having use activation again (of course, if you change any hardware after activation it's not going to work).

[B] However, I may need to learn more about my hardware.

Good thinking. Try this:

Go to http://www.navsoft.cz/ and download his NSSI software (under the products button). Put that in a new Folder and expand it by running it. Copy those files to a bootable floppy. And run NSSI. Boot with the floppy, then run NSSI.EXE. Use it to generate a report. Then upload the report here.

[B] This is very annoying, and I hate all manufacturers who kiss the past good bye and make it harder for us to enjoy the oldies.

That's way the market is now. Most people want cutting-edge, 3D, surround-sound, multiplayer games; so that's where you'll find the concentration of resources.

[B] It's not like we don't buy new games too! Okay, so the newest game I have is Elite Force,...

I think my most recent was "Summoner". Got that because it was 50 cents.
Heh. I love Half-Price books.

[B]... aggivated to see all these old game boxes in my closet that are a thing of the past! I won't let my money go to waste (from way back when),...

Heh, computer-people are more dedicated to their hobby than just about anyone.

"Forget your music CD's, I'm sticking with my wind-up Victrola!"
http://www.victor-victrola.com/

[B]BTW, is there a step by step tutorial on setting up a dual boot when XP is already installed?

Hrmm... http://www.winxpfix.com/page5.htm for now. Will try to find a better one later...

[B]Oh geez, sorry for making you read all that.

Consider this replay as payback.

Sidenote:
Okay, loading Photoshop and FlashFXP at the same time is a Bad Thing(tm). Actually, trying to load ANYTHING and anything at the same time is a Bad Thing(tm) when it's in Windows...(so much for multi-tasking). I was writing this and opened Photoshop and FlashFXP at the same time so that I could quickly make a transparent colour for the "music notes" icon and then upload it to my webspace, and there went my system. (I have nooo idea what happens. Probably some memory space allocation conflict or something. In any case, it sucked, and I lost everything. Oh, well. C'est la vie. It's better now. 😀)

Mainnote:
Anyway, here's a guide to getting VDMSound to work with Duke3D in Windows XP (starting from scratch -- feel free to pick up at the appropriate step 😀):

1. Download and install VDMSound 2.0.4
2. Download and unzip VDMSound 2.0.4_01 (update 1) to the directory in which you installed VDMSound. Be sure to overwrite all files.
3. Download and unzip VDMSound Launchpad 1.0.0.7 to your VDMSound directory and run the included INSTALL.BAT file. (Be sure to uninstall previous versions of Launchpad first by using the provided "UNINSTALL.BAT" file!)
4. Navigate to the DUKE3D directory and right-click on the DUKE3D.EXE file (or whatever batch file it is using). Select the option "Run with VDMSound" that has this icon next to it: .
5. Choose "Set up a custom configuration" and click Next.
6. Select "Create a new configuration from scratch" and click Next.
7. Click "Advanced...". A new window should pop up.
8. Select the Compatibility tab. Check the "Enable basic VESA support" and "Enable low-level CD-ROM support (MSCDEX)".
9. Select the DOS Environment tab. In AUTOEXEC.BAT, type the full location to your NOLFB.COM file. (eg. C:\DUKE3D\NOLFB.COM)
10. Click OK, click Next twice, and you're ready to go! This shortcut will automatically be saved to the DUKE3D directory for future access (so you don't need to go through this again!)

To configure the game's sound: (this is universal)
VDMSound's default Sound Blaster settings:
&&&DSP 4.05 (SoundBlaster 16)
&&&PORT 220
&&&IRQ 7
&&&DMA 1
&&&HI-DMA 5 (this should only be used if the program asks for it)
VDMSound's default AdLib settings:
&&&PORT 338
VDMSound's default General MIDI (MPU-401) settings:
&&&PORT 330

A helpful tip!: You can drag any program to the VDMSound shortcut to have it run with the settings specified in that shortcut without having to touch the configuration at all! (Especially handy for SETSOUND programs.) Of course, you are perfectly welcome to tweak the file. Lower DMA polling periods mean better results, but with more CPU time used. (Not that it matters since NTVDM takes up 100% of it, but, you know. 😁) Higher latency means better sound quality, but set it too high and the sound will be off-sync with the game. Sometimes changing the output device from a DirectSound device to a Wave/WaveOut device can fix problems that occur. Of course, for games that use AdLib sound, I highly recommend that you increase the frequency to 44100Hz from the default 11025Hz.

That's all! Let me know if you've got more problems.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Actually, it more like an "environment" issue. A fish in a lake may be fine. Place the fish on land, and it's in trouble. The fish is your DOS-game, the lake is DOS, and the land is WinXP. The emulation of DOS within XP (the Command Prompt) is like a shallow puddle of water on the land: It's better than nothing for the fish, but it's not enough. The best place for the fish is the lake, where it was originally meant to be.

This is very good comparision. If I was an idiot, I would have just learned about how it works with old games on new PCs. 😜 Well, I'm not an idiot, but that comparison does make it easier to see that unless I dual boot, whatever results I get are atleast something, but not perfect.

Well that would be the easiest to explain, but it would probably be better if you used a partition manager to make some space available on your drive for another OS.

Well, I heard that a dual boot involves starting from scratch on your PC, and having the older OS installed first. Well, that is the EASY way, but since this is a NEW PC that I bought with Windows XP installed on it (it's not like I can buy it with Windows 98 anymore), this other way is the way I must do it. I hope that it is possible to install the older OS later. I mean, maybe my PC could use a good clean up. I don't know how to manage and clean up hidden files and things. I have no idea what my PC is REALLY like, though XP makes me feel like it's all good...

But anyway, I'm not sure what a partition manager is. I hope I don't have to back up my whole PC first. I have no way of doing that. No CD or DVD burner. No extra hard drive either. If my computer crashes, I'm screwed. I'm so glad Windows XP is secure. Except for all these updates it tells me to download or a malicious user will infect it. What's with THAT? Anyway, now I'm just droning on...

A report? How will I be able to get the report to you? Print screen? What will this report tell you? Is this something I WANT to post on message boards for all to see?

Heh, computer-people are more dedicated to their hobby than just about anyone.

Usually true. I know I am. I want to get a career in the industry, so I know this is something I really enjoy. But some people just download warez and burn games for friends, and just don't care about the hard work people put into making them and how much money they lose with every burned copy. This people make me sick.

Snover and DosFreak: Thanks a lot for your help too. Actually, I didn't install VDMSound properly, or rather, didn't uninstall and reinstall it properly. I had it before. So I did it all properly now. I still have problems, but I think I just need more specifics of how to set it up. Well how can I change the VDMSound settings since I made Duke.exe run with VDMSound? I don't get those choices in properties.

So I should make the VDMSound and Duke3D setup sound options the same as what I have on my PC? I don't know what's wrong, except enabling sound thus far in the Duke3D setup makes the game freeze at start up. That's if it starts up. Or it will say the IRQ settings are wrong and it won't start the game.

Grr. I'm frustrated because I want your help and you're providing it nicely. BUT, how can you help when I don't really say what the problem is and so you don't know how to fix it? I don't know... I just need to change the VDMsettings a bit, but I can't on the Duke.exe. However, there is also a VDMSound shortcut to Duke3D. I think I can change settings there.

-Nadine

dyinginformant wrote:

...make it easier to see that unless I dual boot, whatever results I get are atleast something, but not perfect.

If we had something like a "Perfect PC emulator" you would want to give each game a bit more resources than it asks for. That would give good performance and maximum compatibility. Sometimes even old systems are too much for the classics. I have one old adventure that, even if I run it on a (real) 486 66MHz with 32Megs of memory, it freaks out (Claims the computer has negative memory).

I hope that it is possible to install the older OS later.

It is. It's just a little more messy. Short version is this:
Get a partition manager that works with XP (IE: Partition Magic 7)
Use the manager to resize your Boot partition, making space at the "front end" of your drive (About 2 gigabytes of space would be good).
You then use the partition manager to format the new boot partition in the space you made available (using FAT or FAT32, depending on what OS you are installing.
You then install the new OS. After completion, you'll have your DOS-based OS; but not your XP (the old OS's can't see it).

Here you'll to pull a little "trick" and watch carefully. You start a new install of XP (new install, not upgrade). The installer will go through a prepatory process, setting up everything for installation before rebooting. It will then reboot and come up with a menu allowing you to choose between "XP Setup" and your other OS. Quickly, choose your other OS (you only have 5 seconds, otherwise it will continue to try to install another XP).

You then edit a BOOT.INI that's been created so that it defaults to your original XP or your new DOS-based OS.

There are actually a few more steps, but this is the basic process.

I mean, maybe my PC could use a good clean up. I don't know how to manage and clean up hidden files and things. I have no idea what my PC is REALLY like, though XP makes me feel like it's all good...

For the most part, that's for the best. There are a lot of files that, if tampered with, can trash your OS. I do, however recommend AtomicXP. It switches off certain "features" and makes a few enhancements as well. Read up on the features before you "activate" or "deactivate" them.

I hope I don't have to back up my whole PC first. I have no way of doing that. No CD or DVD burner.

If at all possible, get one. With the exception of a few really small files, you have no way to preserve your data in case of an emergency. Right now, if disaster strikes, you could lose just about everything. A partition manager should preserve all your data while resizing the drive. However, if there's some kind of electrical disruption....boom (BTW, a UPS is a good idea as well).

I'm so glad Windows XP is secure.

*shudder* Go to http://grc.com/intro.htm and click on "Unplug n' Pray". There's a simple program to switch that particular vulnerability off (or back on as needed). There are numerous other issues as well, use your best judgement on those.

Except for all these updates it tells me to download or a malicious user will infect it. What's with THAT?

Hrmm... That could be the OS's automatic updates, but some could be spam/spyware installing themselves while pretending to be part of your OS. showthread.php?s=&threadid=296

Atomic XP can turn off the automatic updating stuff for you. You can also do that manually, it just takes more time (dig through menus).

A report? How will I be able to get the report to you? Print screen? What will this report tell you? Is this something I WANT to post on message boards for all to see?

*sigh* NSSI has an "Automatic Report" feature, that looks at your PC and generates a .RPT file (just a text file with some DOS characters in it). It will tell you graphic card it finds, etc...

You can get most of the same info from your system information, or just by looking at the insides of your PC. It's just that NSSI does it automatically. It's not perfect (reported that I have a SoundBlaster soundcard, when actually I have a C-Media soundchip that impersonates a SoundBlaster), but it does a good job and it's still free.

If you're concerned about too much data (I couldn't find anything "personal" on my report), you can just copy-and-paste the most important items:

Motherboard

Processor type and speed

Amount and type of RAM

Video board w/ RAM amount and type

Sound board

Operating system

Unplug n Pray? Is there something I'm unaware of? I thought the term 'plugnplay' only has to do with literally being able to plug in an accessory and use it immediately. It shouldn't have anything to do with security, so how could it be dangerous? I don't understand how this 'feature' could be bad at all. The part about Windows XP that worries me is the feature where you can get someone to see and use your desktop on their PC so that they can see the problem and fix it for you. I don't know about how it works, but that feature could be dangerous. And the 'feature' I'd LIKE if it were actually USEFUL would be the compatibilty mode. It seems like the only games that work with it, already work but become full screen or something when you use it. Many games aren't fooled. They know you're not running Windows 95.

Windows XP seems to not get any of that 'this program has performed an illegal operation and has to shut down' which happens a lot on the other two PCs in this house. One of those other two is 98, the other is 2000. They both have Norton Antivirus, and I tell you. I don't know if the viruses are happening in spite of or because of the program, but they should call it Norton ProVirus. Those PCs are just FULL of virus warnings and alerts, it's horrible. I can't belive the PCs haven't crashed yet. No such problems on Windows XP. It seems great to me.

Then there's macs. I don't know why people find those things so easy and so secure. I have only had a few mac experiences before, and they have always crashed or been confusing. I usually found them UGLY as well, like that typical Mac font and Mac apple logo, but the newer ones look cool finally. And there STILL isn't enough software support for it. I am defintely anti-Mac, though I can't say PCs are perfect either. But I have a better experience on PCs. I just stay away from those virus-infected ones downstairs. Anti-virus... yeah, right...

So I should make the VDMSound and Duke3D setup sound options the same as what I have on my PC?

No. Sound FX/VDMSound/DosBox/XP NTVDM "emulate" the sound card they do not use the hardware in your PC DIRECTLY. They emulate the hardware and then pass the output to your PC hardware INDIRECTLY.

Setting the values to the same as your PC will not help you in any way whatsoever.