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First post, by Grantso74

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Hello! I am Grant and I am currently trying to get into DOS gaming after playing many games from the era such as the Goldbox AD&D games all the way up to Quake and TES II: Daggerfall in DOSBox. However, I am planning on purchasing a machine from Ebay from about the late 90s era. I am primarily looking for a machine with a Pentium 120 and an original 8mb Voodoo card. I have found a machine that meets what I'm looking for on ebay: A HP Vectra VL Series 3 5/120. However, I can't find any info about the machine online. Once again, I am new and don't really know where to look, but I feel I should have found something about. This wouldn't be a HUGE concern if it weren't for the fact that the machine only has an integrated 1mb videocard and I don't know how to tell if it is compatible with a Voodoo or even if it's upgradable at ALL. Once again, these questions are probably quite noobish, but I'm pretty out of my element here 😉 . Anyway, If someone could help me find information about the machine, or really give me any tips at all would be appreciated.

Reply 1 of 11, by jheronimus

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Voodoo 1 is a 3D-only card. So basically it hooks up to any videocard using a VGA passthrough cable. So, to use it, your PC needs a free PCI slot and a cable (any VGA extension cable will work). An integrated card should work just fine.

I'm not sure a Pentium 120 will be enough to play Daggerfall comfortably. It does list 486 as minimum requirement, but still, the framerate might not be smooth enough.

Branded machines like HP Vectra look nice, but aren't too versatile. They are often limited in terms of what CPU you can use, for example. Generic non-branded tower AT machines are better in terms kf upgradeability.

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 2 of 11, by skitters

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I looked up HP Vectra VL Series 3 5/120 at eBay and found this one --> link.
Going by the pictures, it has a 100 Watt power supply in an odd form factor that would be hard to replace, should it need it.

I found specs for the HP Vectra VL Series 3 5/120 on the web archive --> link

If you want to play games like Quake and Daggerfall it wouldn't hurt to have something faster than 120MHz.

Reply 3 of 11, by clueless1

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Welcome to the jungle! That's a pretty decent system for DOS gaming. It will cover a pretty wide range of games, but like the other two mentioned, 120Mhz may be too slow for Daggerfall or games of similar requirements. Looks like the integrated video on there is Cirrus Logic. Not terrible, but definitely on the low end. The good news, you can probably replace it with a dedicated PCI card. If the link skitters posted is the right system, then there are two PCI slots. You could use the integrated for now, then when funds are available, add a better 2D card, like an S3 Virge or CL-GD5446. See the link in my signature for benchmark results of a bunch of PCI cards in DOS. The 2nd PCI slot means you could put a Voodoo 1 in there as well. Should not be any issues with that. Typically when you use a PCI graphics card, the integrated one is automatically disabled. If not, then there will be a BIOS setting or motherboard jumper to turn it off.

Depending on whether you prefer older or newer games, you might want to consider finding something that goes up to 200Mhz. That will open doors for games like System Shock, Duke Nukem 3D, and Descent 1/2, especially if you want to play them in higher details or with SVGA. Even with a fast 200 Mhz system, you can usually disable caches to mimic a 386-class system for older games that play too fast at 200Mhz. See my other link in signature for more info.

Good luck, man!

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 5 of 11, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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GPU definitely affects game speed as well. I've seen a Pentium 90 struggle with DOOM because of a shitty Trident VGA. Also don't forget you will need ISA audio. PCI audio in DOS just doesn't fly. You're also going to need a CRT and a PS2 (ideally mechanical) keyboard and mouse.

For reference my personal DOS machine consist of:

Generic AT Fulltower case
MSI 5156 Socket 7 Motherboard
Intel Pentium MMX 166MHz
32MB EDO Memory
S3 Virge/DX 2MB PCI
Creative Soundblaster 16 (Non-PNP)
1.2GB Seagate IDE Hard Disk
Creative Quadspeed CD-ROM

I can run most anything I desire. Sometimes I have to disable the cache to slow it down a bit. According to PC bench with cache disabled it runs like a 33MHZ 386.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 6 of 11, by MrEWhite

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

GPU definitely affects game speed as well. I've seen a Pentium 90 struggle with DOOM because of a shitty Trident VGA.

Can confirm, got a Rendition V2100 and Pentium Pro 200 and DOOM ran at 10 FPS.

Reply 7 of 11, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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MrEWhite wrote:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

GPU definitely affects game speed as well. I've seen a Pentium 90 struggle with DOOM because of a shitty Trident VGA.

Can confirm, got a Rendition V2100 and Pentium Pro 200 and DOOM ran at 10 FPS.

A V2100 should have had no issues at all. Unless I'm mistake that's faster than my Virge.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 8 of 11, by MrEWhite

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:
MrEWhite wrote:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

GPU definitely affects game speed as well. I've seen a Pentium 90 struggle with DOOM because of a shitty Trident VGA.

Can confirm, got a Rendition V2100 and Pentium Pro 200 and DOOM ran at 10 FPS.

A V2100 should have had no issues at all. Unless I'm mistake that's faster than my Virge.

The 2D portiton sucks at Mode X on all of Rendition's cards.

Reply 9 of 11, by Malik

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Grantso74 wrote:

Hello! I am Grant and I am currently trying to get into DOS gaming after playing many games from the era such as the Goldbox AD&D games all the way up to Quake and TES II: Daggerfall in DOSBox. However, I am planning on purchasing a machine from Ebay from about the late 90s era. I am primarily looking for a machine with a Pentium 120 and an original 8mb Voodoo card. I have found a machine that meets what I'm looking for on ebay: A HP Vectra VL Series 3 5/120. However, I can't find any info about the machine online. Once again, I am new and don't really know where to look, but I feel I should have found something about. This wouldn't be a HUGE concern if it weren't for the fact that the machine only has an integrated 1mb videocard and I don't know how to tell if it is compatible with a Voodoo or even if it's upgradable at ALL. Once again, these questions are probably quite noobish, but I'm pretty out of my element here 😉 . Anyway, If someone could help me find information about the machine, or really give me any tips at all would be appreciated.

Building a vintage system based on Socket 7 Motherboards (these support a wide range of Pentium and it's equivalent AMD & Cyrix CPUs) gives the best flexibility, but it may be too much for you if you're not familiar with these systems. Buying a whole system like the one you mentioned above may be the best at this stage. But also need to keep in mind that these branded systems are quite limited in expansion capabilities, especially in terms of add-on boards, mostly due to limited slots. Also, these branded systems have limited and rigid BIOS options. The integrated video card will be enough for most DOS games.A S3 Trio64V+ or S3 Virge graphics card or it's integrated version has the best compatibility with DOS games. A Voodoo card in a Pentium 120-esque system will be limited to early 3dfx DOS games since later games require more powerful CPUs (Pentium II & above) and Voodoo 2 card for smooth gameplay.

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 10 of 11, by bjt

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Welcome to Vogons! Many have tried what you are proposing, to "get into DOS gaming". Those that are not scared off immediately by extortionate eBay prices for vintage hardware, and tales of arcane compatibility problems soon disappear down the rabbit-hole known as "building a DOS gaming PC". If you're lucky, you will emerge in a few years, having gained level 99 eBay bid-sniping skills and bearing a machine with 3 video cards and 5 sound cards, and an attic full of spare parts.

Only then can you actually sit down and start to play a game.

Or, just use DOSbox on your existing PC.

Reply 11 of 11, by badmojo

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bjt wrote:

Welcome to Vogons! Many have tried what you are proposing, to "get into DOS gaming". Those that are not scared off immediately by extortionate eBay prices for vintage hardware, and tales of arcane compatibility problems soon disappear down the rabbit-hole known as "building a DOS gaming PC". If you're lucky, you will emerge in a few years, having gained level 99 eBay bid-sniping skills and bearing a machine with 3 video cards and 5 sound cards, and an attic full of spare parts.

Only then can you actually sit down and start to play a game.

Or, just use DOSbox on your existing PC.

🤣

Sound familiar!

Life? Don't talk to me about life.