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Reply 20 of 33, by OpenRift

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leileilol wrote:
Winquake is a vanilla quake too and did support 320x200/640x400. Often those modes don't show up on modern video card drivers, […]
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Winquake is a vanilla quake too and did support 320x200/640x400. Often those modes don't show up on modern video card drivers, but some do still have them (Intel HD for example)

and this aspect ratio stuff... stock quake always strictly calculated a 320x240 4:3 aspect FOV, and sure quake's software 2d routines don't adapt, but they did in GLQuake at one point (320x200 aspect for 2d for very early GLQuake even)

The framerate's more meant to cap around 72 than 35, and there are computers in 1996 that could achieve that high *COUGH*PENTIUM PRO*COUGH*

Know that non-integer, non-square scaling on the CPU is slow.

I was aware of this. I've actually had 320x200 and 640x400 show up on my Razer Blade 15 when it's not plugged into an external monitor. But as expected, it renders in 16:10 with square pixels instead of being corrected to 4:3.

Reply 21 of 33, by hail-to-the-ryzen

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Quake in DOSBox or version 0.65 of TyrQuake with software renderer. Latter runs Arcane Dimensions mod in that configuration, including in Windows 95 if compiled for it.

Reply 22 of 33, by OpenRift

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hail-to-the-ryzen wrote:

Quake in DOSBox or version 0.65 of TyrQuake with software renderer. Latter runs Arcane Dimensions mod in that configuration, including in Windows 95 if compiled for it.

The issue is that DOSBox Quake doesn't have support for NetQuake servers that run in Windows as far as I can tell.

Reply 23 of 33, by leileilol

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Well neither does running it natively, it's why it has that MPATH interfacing for q95.bat to give it TCP/IP. neozeed once made WattTCP DOS Quake ports to alleviate this issue under DOS. For DOSBox, have a build with the network passthrough patch and it should work.

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Reply 24 of 33, by OpenRift

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leileilol wrote:

Well neither does running it natively, it's why it has that MPATH interfacing for q95.bat to give it TCP/IP. neozeed once made WattTCP DOS Quake ports to alleviate this issue under DOS. For DOSBox, have a build with the network passthrough patch and it should work.

I just downloaded that build from a source ports archive on quaddicted and ran dos.bat. It said that wattcp.cfg couldn't be found and tried configuring through BOOTP, DHCP, and RARP, but they all failed. Is this just an incomplete build?

The original link for the wattcp port just leads to a dead blog post.

Reply 25 of 33, by tavuntu

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I'm little bit late in here but, I'll add my grain of sand. For anyone interested in pixel perfect Quake, please look at my post in here. And yes, I'm not focusing on having a perfect aspect ratio (neither for the HUD or the 3D viewport), this does one thing: Shows you Quake in a pixel perfect resolution for both Full HD and 4K, I added an internal resolution of 384x216. This is for TyrQuake (RetroArch) btw.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/cvHPVm5

And yes, I'm not saying this is the best way to play it, it's just my personal favorite experience and I wanted to share it in case someone else also likes it, enjoy!

EDIT: Added link to gallery with full-res images (for download)

Reply 26 of 33, by MrFlibble

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tavuntu wrote on 2022-08-01, 22:20:

For anyone interested in pixel perfect Quake, please look at my post in here. And yes, I'm not focusing on having a perfect aspect ratio (neither for the HUD or the 3D viewport), this does one thing: Shows you Quake in a pixel perfect resolution for both Full HD and 4K,

I believe this place is no worse than any other to ask: what exactly does the term "pixel perfect" actually mean? Square pixels that aren't blurry? or something else?

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Reply 27 of 33, by appiah4

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I actually played through first episode of Quake using vkQuake last night and I really feel like there is no need to preserve the DOS renderer at all. That said, if anyone does it, I would applaud them anyway.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 28 of 33, by Ringding

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MrFlibble wrote on 2022-08-02, 10:42:

I believe this place is no worse than any other to ask: what exactly does the term "pixel perfect" actually mean? Square pixels that aren't blurry? or something else?

Every source pixel maps to the same integral number of destination pixels and the aspect ratio is preserved. For square pixels as in 320x240 or 640x480 any scaling mode, be it 1x1, 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5 or 6x6, is pixel-perfect. But for 320x200, the only sane one is 5x6, resulting in the already cited 1600x1200 output resolution.

If the number is not integral, then you will get nasty horizontal scaling artifacts.

Last edited by Ringding on 2022-08-02, 17:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 29 of 33, by tavuntu

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MrFlibble wrote on 2022-08-02, 10:42:
tavuntu wrote on 2022-08-01, 22:20:

For anyone interested in pixel perfect Quake, please look at my post in here. And yes, I'm not focusing on having a perfect aspect ratio (neither for the HUD or the 3D viewport), this does one thing: Shows you Quake in a pixel perfect resolution for both Full HD and 4K,

I believe this place is no worse than any other to ask: what exactly does the term "pixel perfect" actually mean? Square pixels that aren't blurry? or something else?

Someone already answered but yes, in short, it's square pixels.

Both Full HD and 4K are multiples of 384x216 so this will theorically work for any other resolution that is also a multiple (like 1152x648). And yes, this means "nearest-neighbor" interpolation, not bilinear stuff.

Reply 30 of 33, by leileilol

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-08-02, 11:30:

I actually played through first episode of Quake using vkQuake last night and I really feel like there is no need to preserve the DOS renderer at all. That said, if anyone does it, I would applaud them anyway.

The way vkQuake looks is from the effort taken in Quakespasm to represent Quake from how it looked on DOS. They didn't leave it looking featureless, wobbly aliased, broken sprites, and dark with orange balls as in GLQuake.

(and there's still some accuracy work left to do, like no one's clamping model lighting like the vanilla behavior, and there's no authentic water shaders (which are as easy as a couple of sins against time with some 64 step rounding))

*taps szo's shoulder about this last part

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Reply 31 of 33, by Azarien

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BeginnerGuy wrote on 2019-10-14, 14:07:

The only way I know of to perfectly display 320x200 with the stretched 4:3 aspect (with square pixels 320x200 is actually 16:10 according to my napkin math) on an LCD would be to upscale every x pixel x5 and every y pixel x 6, resulting in a final image of 1600x1200, quite annoying when you consider the average monitor is only 1080 pixels tall.

Except that 320x200 "perfectly" upscaled to 1600x1200 does not give you the original experience. 5x6 pixels look super sharp which is not how it looks like on a CRT monitor.
On the other hand 320x200 bi-linearly upscaled to 1600x1200 looks blurry and ugly.

Some combination of pixel-perfect scaling and a bit of normal upscaling or downscaling gives more natural look.

Reply 32 of 33, by Kerr Avon

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Be thankful you're using a PC, as getting older consoles (N64, SNES, Playstation, Atari 2600, etc) to even display the right colours and with no screen jumping on a modern TV can be both troublesome and expensive, and even if you do find a decent and not too expensive upscaler or HDMI converter, then often there is still a noticeable drop in quality when compared to using the console on a CRT screen, because these older consoles relied on the CRT's screen blur to help hide their low resolutions.

And no TV manufacturer (to my knowledge) seems to bother listing what old consoles will work natively with any given modern television.

Given how much trouble it is to play old games as they were originally intended, be they on PC or console, it might be easier if we all got together and made a group effort to invent real, practical time travel. Then there would be no need to configure DOSBox for a troublesome game, no need to spend a couple of hundred quid to get HDMI added to your Nintendo 64, no need to struggle with older GFX drivers. Want to play Quake in it's original form? Just go back to 1996. Want to SNES or Megadrive games without any onscreen ghosting? Nip back to the early 90s. Want to avoid Duke Nukem Forever? Stay away from 2011.

When you think about it, we don't even have to get together and invent time travel. We can just wait for our future selves to come back in time and give it to us anyway. At least we would wait if we were in a Hollywood film about time travel. Why are people in time travel films so stupid? It;s like how most people in zombie films have never heard of zombies (unless the film is a sequel).

Reply 33 of 33, by leileilol

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Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-08-03, 22:33:

Want to SNES or Megadrive games without any onscreen ghosting? Nip back to the early 90s.

CRT TVs then did have ghosting. Why do you think they do the flicker effects to approximate translucencies?

CRTs on PCs then often had color pollution too, and then there's the pincushions, tapered/sheared images, poor dot pitch, dacs, etc... Time travel won't send you to a retro perfection fantasy, it'll make the world worse for anyone without a sports almanac.

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