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Is it worth it to build a 486 66 or 133 machine using VLB vs SOcket 7 with level 1 and 2 disabled?

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First post, by Unrealcpu

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Is it worth it to build a 486 66 or 133 machine using VLB vs SOcket 7 with level 1 and 2 disabled?

Trying to figure out about compatibility ? Or am I better off getting a socket 7 with say 133-233mhz disabling the cache and using a tnt mh64 PCI video card?

using a sony trinitron CRT
thanks

Reply 2 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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rmay635703 wrote on 2021-03-14, 18:04:

If your looking for 286/386 level performance sure.

Some 486 boards can clock down to 16mhz if you need even slower

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2013/04/m … lth-24-vlb.html

is this video card worth it for 42 bucks?

Reply 3 of 78, by Jorpho

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If you consider that almost anything you could run on that machine would work just fine on a modern machine running DOSBox, then no, of course it isn't "worth it".

The question is always: what exactly do you want to run, and how much are you willing to pay in order to run it?

Reply 5 of 78, by Jorpho

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-15, 00:18:

Back on subject

Yes? You are asking for a value judgement.

The question remains: what exactly do you want to run? And what do you gain by not running it on something cheaper? Even if you forget about DOSBox, there is still a heap of alternatives.

If you just want to build this machine so you can shove it in a corner and let it collect dust and brag on the Internet, then the answer to your question is no, it is not "worth it".

If you feel that your life would somehow not be complete with anything less than a genuine 486 66 in your possession, then clearly it is worth any price.

Reply 6 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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Jorpho wrote on 2021-03-15, 00:51:
Yes? You are asking for a value judgement. […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-15, 00:18:

Back on subject

Yes? You are asking for a value judgement.

The question remains: what exactly do you want to run? And what do you gain by not running it on something cheaper? Even if you forget about DOSBox, there is still a heap of alternatives.

If you just want to build this machine so you can shove it in a corner and let it collect dust and brag on the Internet, then the answer to your question is no, it is not "worth it".

If you feel that your life would somehow not be complete with anything less than a genuine 486 66 in your possession, then clearly it is worth any price.

again i could care less about dos box. It will never be accurate compared to the real computer. I like how you put words in peoples mouths, did I say anything about bragging?

I do not think you understand my question , stop throwing out those alternatives

Reply 7 of 78, by xcomcmdr

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I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Also, accuracy is overrated.

Hardware will fail, it's inevitable. It becomes rare, hard to fix, and the price is not worth it nowadays on evilbay.

That's why emulators such as DOSBox and PCem are very important.

Reply 8 of 78, by Joseph_Joestar

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:

Also, accuracy is overrated.

I think it depends. If you're playing a game for the first time ever using emulation, you probably won't even notice any inaccuracies. Unless it's something major like visual artifacts and such. However, if you're replaying your favorite game, one that you have spent countless hours on as a kid using real hardware, you will likely notice if something is off.

On topic, I wouldn't personally go below Socket 7 since a Pentium MMX can be made to work at 486 and 386 levels using slowdown utilities. On the other hand, if you had a 486 back in the day, then it's perfectly understandable if you want to make a similar build for nostalgic reasons.

Build #1: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 / YMF744
Build #2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
Build #3: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 10 of 78, by chinny22

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:

I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Correct usage on the phrase 😉
https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw

Back on topic
You could argue for low end 486's that behave more like a fast 386 but your looking at the fast end of socket 3 (66-133) which is already too fast for a lot of games and too slow for late dos titles.
Just about all my dos games that run on my 486's run just as well on my next slowest PC, a P3 600.

Now if you want to mess around with the hardware side of things then lack of PCI, VLB and just that retro feel is defiantly worth it. So much so I own 3 (DX2/66 POD 83, 5x86 133) but I'm under no elusion 486 is pure nostalgia and nothing to do with it doesn't anything better/worse then other PC's I have.

I cant help on VLB pricing, but would say don't overlook Cirrus Logic. Most people (including myself do so prices aren't stupid like the the more famous brands. Lat year I scored a PC with a onboard VLB 9510 and was very pleasantly surprised at how good it was.

Reply 11 of 78, by Jorpho

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-15, 04:49:

again i could care less about dos box. It will never be accurate compared to the real computer. I like how you put words in peoples mouths, did I say anything about bragging?

Now who's putting words in people's mouths? I said "even if you forget about DOSBox, there is still a heap of alternatives." That includes other hardware.

I do not think you understand my question , stop throwing out those alternatives

You're right, I don't understand your question and that's why I didn't even suggest other alternatives. How do you determine "worth" without considering alternatives, anyway? What is $42 to you? What would you rather spend $42 on?

That's why I'm asking what you want to run. I asked twice already and you still haven't answered. If what you want to run doesn't work better on a 486 66, then it isn't worth it. If you don't care what you're going to run and you just want a 486 66 so you can stop wondering about whether something is "accurate", then it must be worth it.

I'll shut up now.

Reply 12 of 78, by dogchainx

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chinny22 wrote on 2021-03-15, 12:51:
Correct usage on the phrase ;) https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw […]
Show full quote
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:

I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Correct usage on the phrase 😉
https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw

Back on topic
You could argue for low end 486's that behave more like a fast 386 but your looking at the fast end of socket 3 (66-133) which is already too fast for a lot of games and too slow for late dos titles.
Just about all my dos games that run on my 486's run just as well on my next slowest PC, a P3 600.

Now if you want to mess around with the hardware side of things then lack of PCI, VLB and just that retro feel is defiantly worth it. So much so I own 3 (DX2/66 POD 83, 5x86 133) but I'm under no elusion 486 is pure nostalgia and nothing to do with it doesn't anything better/worse then other PC's I have.

I cant help on VLB pricing, but would say don't overlook Cirrus Logic. Most people (including myself do so prices aren't stupid like the the more famous brands. Lat year I scored a PC with a onboard VLB 9510 and was very pleasantly surprised at how good it was.

My two cents: I agree with the above statement.

If it interests you, and want to look into VLB and 486 computing, do it (if pricing is comfortable to you).

I have a million different machines. 8088, 286, 386, 486, 5x86, pentium 1,2,3, pentium-d, athlon, athlon 64-x2, 775 socket, 1366 socket, etc. Its worth it only because it interests me and fulfills my hoarder needs. That and seeing the pricing of equipment lately, I can sell off everything and comfortably retire to a small island. 😉

386DX-40MHz-8MB-540MB+428MB+Speedstar64@2MB+SoundBlaster Pro+MT-32/MKII
486DX2-66Mhz-16MB-4.3GB+SpeedStar64 VLB DRAM 2MB+AWE32/SB16+SCB-55
MY BLOG RETRO PC BLOG: https://bitbyted.wordpress.com/

Reply 13 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:
I could not care less. […]
Show full quote

I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Also, accuracy is overrated.

Hardware will fail, it's inevitable. It becomes rare, hard to fix, and the price is not worth it nowadays on evilbay.

That's why emulators such as DOSBox and PCem are very important.

cool i dont care

Reply 14 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:41:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:

Also, accuracy is overrated.

I think it depends. If you're playing a game for the first time ever using emulation, you probably won't even notice any inaccuracies. Unless it's something major like visual artifacts and such. However, if you're replaying your favorite game, one that you have spent countless hours on as a kid using real hardware, you will likely notice if something is off.

On topic, I wouldn't personally go below Socket 7 since a Pentium MMX can be made to work at 486 and 386 levels using slowdown utilities. On the other hand, if you had a 486 back in the day, then it's perfectly understandable if you want to make a similar build for nostalgic reasons.

Have these people replying prob never grew up with a 386 computer back in 1991. And thank you for your input. I agree from watching phils computer lab and will most likely get a k6-3+ socket 7 and use set mul .
I have tested several games using dosbox and not happy with it.

Reply 15 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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SodaSuccubus wrote on 2021-03-15, 09:43:

Build what you wanna build. If a hotrodded VLB system with a 586-133/160/150 sounds interesting then why not?

Yes, Socket 7 would be cheaper and easier to setup since you have access to PCI video and more stable hardware options.

I just bought this for 91.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384009014115

I have alot of hardware that I have collected the last 10 years. Just have not really delved into it. I would probably hurt peoples feelings or they would think I am bragging if i told what I own.

I also have played with mister FPGA and the 486sx core cannot run games accurately and do not think it will any time soon. Might take years before it gets good.

I also have exo dos and have tested several games as well and although some run good . I still believe emulation has issues with sound and timing. That is why i am snatching up as much hardware as possible.

My goal for this thread was to hear peoples experience owning a socket 7 and lower vs owning a 286-486 when it comes to certain games maybe having issues on the socket 7 using set mul.

I think I am getting to the point having to build several systems to run software for that time period.

Also I heard AMD athlon slot A certain mobos have the ability to downclock or disable caches which has not been really discussed on youtube that may be a good option if the mobo has a ISA slot for a SB AWE 64 or CT1600 /1750

Reply 16 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:
I could not care less. […]
Show full quote

I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Also, accuracy is overrated.

Hardware will fail, it's inevitable. It becomes rare, hard to fix, and the price is not worth it nowadays on evilbay.

That's why emulators such as DOSBox and PCem are very important.

again you are arguing with me and putting words in my mouth that I should use DOSBOX. I DO NOT CARE!

Reply 17 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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dogchainx wrote on 2021-03-15, 17:25:
My two cents: I agree with the above statement. […]
Show full quote
chinny22 wrote on 2021-03-15, 12:51:
Correct usage on the phrase ;) https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw […]
Show full quote
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:

I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Correct usage on the phrase 😉
https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw

Back on topic
You could argue for low end 486's that behave more like a fast 386 but your looking at the fast end of socket 3 (66-133) which is already too fast for a lot of games and too slow for late dos titles.
Just about all my dos games that run on my 486's run just as well on my next slowest PC, a P3 600.

Now if you want to mess around with the hardware side of things then lack of PCI, VLB and just that retro feel is defiantly worth it. So much so I own 3 (DX2/66 POD 83, 5x86 133) but I'm under no elusion 486 is pure nostalgia and nothing to do with it doesn't anything better/worse then other PC's I have.

I cant help on VLB pricing, but would say don't overlook Cirrus Logic. Most people (including myself do so prices aren't stupid like the the more famous brands. Lat year I scored a PC with a onboard VLB 9510 and was very pleasantly surprised at how good it was.

My two cents: I agree with the above statement.

If it interests you, and want to look into VLB and 486 computing, do it (if pricing is comfortable to you).

I have a million different machines. 8088, 286, 386, 486, 5x86, pentium 1,2,3, pentium-d, athlon, athlon 64-x2, 775 socket, 1366 socket, etc. Its worth it only because it interests me and fulfills my hoarder needs. That and seeing the pricing of equipment lately, I can sell off everything and comfortably retire to a small island. 😉

Yea I would hurt peoples feelings if they saw what I own.

Reply 18 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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chinny22 wrote on 2021-03-15, 12:51:
Correct usage on the phrase ;) https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw […]
Show full quote
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-15, 08:06:

I could not care less.

You say "I could *not* care less".

Correct usage on the phrase 😉
https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw

Back on topic
You could argue for low end 486's that behave more like a fast 386 but your looking at the fast end of socket 3 (66-133) which is already too fast for a lot of games and too slow for late dos titles.
Just about all my dos games that run on my 486's run just as well on my next slowest PC, a P3 600.

Now if you want to mess around with the hardware side of things then lack of PCI, VLB and just that retro feel is defiantly worth it. So much so I own 3 (DX2/66 POD 83, 5x86 133) but I'm under no elusion 486 is pure nostalgia and nothing to do with it doesn't anything better/worse then other PC's I have.

I cant help on VLB pricing, but would say don't overlook Cirrus Logic. Most people (including myself do so prices aren't stupid like the the more famous brands. Lat year I scored a PC with a onboard VLB 9510 and was very pleasantly surprised at how good it was.

My point was made clear.

Reply 19 of 78, by Jed118

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I'm genuinely astounded by how quickly I'll be able to sell a 386 or a 486 on eBay vs. how long a "newer" system will stay up there that can do the job for half the price, even with an open haggling invitation. People will pay for nostalgia it seems - either that or they need an exact machine configured in some way for an industrial application. I've seen those off to places as far as Greece.

In any case, personally, I run real hardware. I've used DOSBox for work related things, I never bothered to try any games with it. To me, I need the tactile input of flipping a switch, hearing the monitor energize and flicker to life, and the hard disk sound spinning up. The floppy test and RAM counting is part of the boot experience. Having said that, the hardware is old, and will need at least an intermediate understading of the technology, a source of spares, and as the technology gets older, parts-swapping becomes component level repair and a certain amount of hoarding (or at least not throwing out damaged components) becomes necessary, and so do the skills involved in fixing those. In my case, it's forcing me to learn stuff I hadn't considered as a tech in the 90s.

So, if that $42 card is worth it is entirely up to you. For me, $42 CAD shipped to my door is an entirely welcome proposition 😉

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What's for sale? my eBay!