My ASUS A7V333 has no problems in running native ms-dos games. The on-board CMI-8738 even has some sort of SB emulation for DOS. However the A7V333 board has some time now. It's not what we call modern.

Well, since that board comes with the dos audio built in then it's probably suitable. However, heh, $$$. I spent plenty on this A7V880, the Athlon, the memory, etc. I also have the KT7A rollin' now. Amazingly, I've got the audio, mouse, cd all running in dos mode with about 600K of conventional still available for games! I don't get it. In the past I was never able to get more than 560K, without Smartdrive, and now I've got both Smartdrive and MSCDEX both listening to what I typed and fully loading into upper memory. I always told it to in the past, but would only get part of smartdrive and none of MSCDEX in there. I haven't changed anything from what I've always loaded into the configuration files. I can only guess that perhaps the Windows 98SESP2.0RC1 or the 98SE2ME updates perhaps change something in io.sys that enables more free upper memory.

Pinball Fantasies, Epic Pinball, StarTrek TNG A Final Unity, ST Judgment Rites, ST 25th Anniversary all tested and running great with the SBLive audio in MS-DOS Mode on the KT7A.

I think the A7V880 must not have non-maskable interrupts enabled but I didn't notice anything related to that in the BIOS last I checked. That'll mess me up no matter whether I disable all the on-board stuff or not. Perhaps though, disabling the on board stuff might automagically enable that thing? I also was using a SATA HD when I had the A7V880 up, with the SATA BIOS enabled. Maybe using an IDE HD would change the system's behaviour? Does anyone know?

The only problem with the Live is the Ultima series, but they work better with Dosbox than any other solution I've tried. It's the first time it's run at the correct speed. I used to be able to run Ultima stuff with my old Pavilion SiS5598 board with the Riptide sound/modem contraption as that doesn't require EMM386. But it was really unplayable as the 300 (later 366) processor ran it too fast. Dosbox gets it just right. But not on the KT7A. Dosbox needs the AthlonXP 3200(Barton) of my A7V880 to perform right.

If I could get it all (Windows, DosMode, Dosbox) on the A7V880, that would be ideal. I really only have a spot for one computer at a time, and must unplug and reconfigure all the wires and Cable Modem (call Comcast-different Ethernet Ip, etc) when I want to switch them.

Heh, I just ordered a used PCI Voodoo 5 5500 since the AGP one won't fit in the slot of the A7V880. I've been using a Radeon 9600XT, but the Voodoo plays anything I have and perhaps is better in Dos as it has VESA 3.0 as opposed to the Radeon's VESA 2.0. Funny though. The Radeon will play Dos in XP but the Voodoo won't. That doesn't matter as I've rediscovered 98SE with all the new 3rd party updates at the MSFN forum http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showforum=91. Cool stuff.

Anywho, does anyone know of any BIOS or other settings tricks for boards like the ASUS A7V880 to get non-maskable interrupts going for the Live, or to get rid of whatever hogs memory space A20 (whatever that is, it shows up when himem.sys loads at bootup everytime)?

Why putting that much effort trying to run games under native ms-dos? Since I got Windows XP I have never gone back to ms-dos. Having NTFS partitions becomes a nuissance when booting into real ms-dos (Microsoft was so cheap in their designs for not delivering a NTFS driver for ms-dos, I think it was totally intended though). DOSBox works generally quite well and it's a lot less effort to get it up and running. Some games may not work properly but that's a minor thing. Most games will work even better than on real ms-dos. Besides, you got a lot more options (specially sound card wise) than if you were using native ms-dos. My 0.02€

Yeah, I've given that advice myself! I'm my own devil's advocate though. Part of the reason for my frequent restructuring of my system's is I can't freek'n decide what the heck I want.

I just posted here because I'd like my new computer to be able to run things the old way as well as the XP way.

I've been reading up on himem.sys and the error message about not being able to access line A20. All of the info I've seen is from back when Windows 3.1 was in its heyday. They write that sometimes himem has trouble with older machines and you need to specify with an M:x line what kind of computer it is. You mean to tell me that my new Asus A7V880 doesn't communicate that properly? Another suggestion is to specify A20CONTROL:ON, but that's the default so I don't see how that helps. Another suggestion is to add set dos16m=2 to autoexec.bat. That comes as the first thing to try from Symantec, then they suggest using the /m:1 switch to himem.sys. But, another website suggests using M:2, as that tells himem that the system is a speedier ps2 computer. And again another website suggests using the alternate pc/AT numbers 11,12 or 13. What the hey?

I would email ASUS but I've tried that twice for other stuff they've fixed recently in BIOS updates (the improper tagging of the AthlonXP3200(Barton) as a 3100, and one they haven't fixed (the missreading of the SPD so I need to set my memory timings manually), and they never replied except for the form letter that they received it.

Anyone familiar with this A20 thingy? Why in the world would a new computer have a problem that hasn't existed since Win3.1 days?

And, does anyone know what item in a modern BIOS would be possibly a switch to topple on non-maskable interrupts?

I filled out a support request with Asus, and they sent me a step by step of how to clean install Windows.

AARGHHH!

I guess they just won't admit that although the board is compatible with Windows 98SE, it is a crippled version without the ability for the user to manage dos memory. So, ms-dos mode is just for emergency servicing.

So, I've installed XP on the machine and will use the old box (with the KT7A in it) for a backup PC. Funny that the backup PC has the system configured perfectly for what I'd want. I do video stuff though, and the A7V880's AthlonXP3200+ (Barton) is too much faster than the T-Bird 1.2GHZ for me to use the old one as my main box. Although I'd rather like to.

I'm forced to use XP.

Dosbox works great though!

I have just bought a A7V600-X (for replacing my aged A7V333) - It will arrive in two weeks. Let's see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if EMS memory gets disabled now. 😵

ASUS seems to have gone downhill a bit from a few years ago when they were the mainboard manufacturer. Disappointing.

Yep. Snover, what do you make of nVidia vs. VIA nowadays? Have you used both brands of motherboard chipsets?

If that relates to anything I've been asking, I don't want to sound like I think anything's wrong with this board. For all I know it may be designed like this for a reason.

Perhaps it's something as simple as using an IDE hard drive instead of the SATA one I'm using in it. I wonder what would happen if I turned off the on board SATA Boot Rom and used a regular IDE drive instead. Perhaps it needs to keep control of the memory areas normally used by himem.sys or emm386.exe for SATA operation?

The thing runs fast and stable in either 98 or XP. No crashes or freeze's even when stressed. Anything I've thrown at it works (except dos mode).

Dosbox and vdmsound run great on Xp too. It's just that with a working dos mode I could have both Dosbox and ms-dos mode available. And, I do like how 98 runs the older 98 era games pretty much flawlessly whereas there are some that give me extra work to get going on XP. As well as a very few that can't run acceptably.

It's funny. This Antec case came with no pc speaker or even a spot for one. But with XP and Dosbox, the old games that only use the speaker are played by Dosbox through the sound system. Now that actually is an improvement by subtraction. It sounds a lot better than any old pc speaker I've heard. (I don't get to hear any BIOS beeps this way though. I'm not sure I like that.)

Oh well. Everest gives good reports on how the system's running as well. So, I can't complain much. I just wish ASUS had something documenting the no real dosgame availability in true dos because of needing the memory space for motherboard features. I like the board in every other way but I still would have shopped further for something that wouldn't do that.

Expanded memory problems have been becoming more frequent over the past 2-3 years as more features have been integrated on the mobo....I don't expect this to get any better especially once the new replacement for the old BIOS comes out, damn can't remember the name for it. Anyways that won't happen for quite awhile yet since Longhorn will have to maintain compatibility with older PC's.....so for the next 2-3 years the only solution will be to:

1. Find a mobo that doesn't use up memory ranges requires for EMS. (Good luck!)
2. Disable onboard devices eating up those memory ranges.
3. Forgot about EMS in NTVDM/Real DOS and use emulators such as DosBox (YAY!)

I really don't expect Microsoft to offer the ability to change the memory addresses in NTVDM in LongHorn (2K/XP do appear to have the ability but it doesn't work) as evidence I'd like to point to the very small amount of changes made to NTVDM from NT 3.51 to 4.0, to 5.0, to 5.1, and finally 5.2. So little has been changed as far as DOS compatibility goes that it's pretty certain that Longhorn will not have any changes to NTVDM. It would be nice if they offered some of the tech from VPC in LongHorn but I find it difficult to believe that they would do so. NTVDM is vastly different from VPC and NTVDM could easily be modified to get games to work if MS would stick a guy on it for a couple of hours.

At the speed DosBox is going we really won't have to worry about Real DOS or NTVDM at all in a couple of years....of course there will always be purists with dedicated hardware! 😀

Yes DosFreak, and as a matter of fact I have switched my priority from trying games with vdmsound first before Dosbox to attempting them in Dosbox before trying vdmsound as a last resort.

This is because I noticed someone posted, in response to a guy asking about vdmsound development, that in Longhorn there will be a change. They apparently are planning to remove the command access altogether! This will make using Dosbox the only way to run these old treasures.

I've noticed that Dosbox does run better on the new computer with the AthlonXP 3200+(Barton) than it did on my old T-Bird 1.2.

I still don't get to set the cpu cycles past about 8,000 though without game performance getting worse. I wonder why? Lot's of folks here set the thing to 10,000. Some higher. Are they running it on Athlon 64's at even faster processor speeds? For me, setting it higher makes things worse. Of course, older stuff actually likes 3-5,000 but the graphic intensive stuff seems to want more but I can't give it.

At this point, games like Tomb Raider still need vdmsound (with dgvoodoo) to get running (actually it runs and looks better!) like the old days. I'm hoping that eventually Dosbox gets to the point where it can handle all the games. Some of these, I'm buying (and downloading) for the first time. I like them better than what's being developed today. I just ordered Lucasarts classic collection from them. Would you believe I've never played that stuff? Except for Maniac Mansion on my old NES. (I downloaded ScummVM and the Quick and Easy Installer's in preperation.) Now, that stuff needs the special emulator at this point to run acceptably (I hear). I hope Dosbox continues to improve so they all run in it.

I'm peeved though. I was enjoying 98. I found it less clunky than XP. XP reminds me of Creative software and drivers. That's why I'm using the built in SoundMAX on this thing rather than the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum I have sitting in the box! Really though, something in the Audigy driver makes my Microsoft Baseball 2001 game play with missing Announcer and crowd noise. The Sensaura options on the SoundMAX (especially with the Headphone Theatre and Virual Ear updates I bought) offer more choices in playing with the audio than my Santa Cruz and Revo 7.1 (also in boxes!). so that's why I'm using it. You know, it sounds fine. (Better with DVD's!) Especially since I listen with headphones most of the time.

Eck, I would be interested to know where exactly you are getting your information from. There is no way that command-line access will ever be removed -- it's too essential. In fact, in Longhorn, (according to Microsoft) the command-line will be even better, much more like the *nix command shells. You may be thinking of their move to remove the NTVDM, which has already happened in XP64 (they apparently are too incompetent to get 16-bit code running in a 64-bit OS, even though it's reportedly possible).

Yeah, that's what I mean. And I got that from here somewhere. So, NTVDM is the New Technology Virtual Device Machine? And so, removing that basically reduces the command prompt to what I said 98's Dos Mode is reduced to without the user being able to manage the memory. A prompt for dealing with troubleshooting, not an OS to play games in.

And, I would think that would make vdmsound pretty much useless. Therefore the continued development of Dosbox to play some of those tricky games from late in the Dos era is something to hope for. They play in vdmsound now, but that won't be available in the near future.

You've got most of it, but are slightly confused. The Windows NT command line "cmd.exe" is very different from the legacy DOS shell "command.com". NTVDM stands for NT Virtual DOS Machine. (Yes, acronyms in acronyms, brilliance!) But yes, removal of NTVDM will require the use of emulation.