Hi there!

The joystick problem could have several origins.

Could be a speed issue, for example.
Newer gameports in 16-Bit soundcards had to be speed-compensated (doing it automatically).

Some high-end game cards in the 80s had a trim pot for this purpose.

Issue of the problem:
The PC gameport works by charging/discharging capacitors.
They're used as a time base for a timer ic, the NE558

(Which itself contains the functionality of many 555 ICs - the 555 is/was the most famous timer ic in the world.)

Now, if the PC is too fast, there's not enough time to properly measure this act.

Both the hardware and software may have trouble then.
That's why calibration routines were often part of the game.
Or part of the joystick - the joystick could also be calibrated.
It was however, more intended to balance out both x and y axis.
Not to compensate for timing issues.

If you can, please tell a bit about your hard and software, so we can provide better tips.

Good luck! 🙂🤞

Edit: There were multiple utilities in the shareware and public domain scene.
Some emulated a mouse via joystick or a keyboard via joystick.

Not sure if the game supports a mouse driver, however.
If it talks directly via AUX: port to the mouse, then that may not work.
Not sure which mouse standard the games uses, also.
There used to be Mouse Systems, Microsoft, Logitech, Genius etc.

Edit: I can understand your frustration. There's little information about the mouse/joystick support.
In fact, I'm surprised no one bothered to check which mice protocols this iconic game supports.
And if it can handle different baud rates, detect different FiFo chips and use their buffers etc. (the 16450, 16550A rather than just the basic 8250).

Edit: Not sure if it is helpful, but if everything fails:

You can build or buy a little mouse converter.
Such a device simulates a serial port mouse (Microsoft Mouse) and uses a modern mouse as source.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcpba3Pkvkk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ORccba_6Pfg

Jo22 wrote on 2023-02-09, 05:41:

Hi there! The joystick problem could have several origins. Could be a speed issue, for example. Newer gameports in 16-Bit soundc […]
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Hi there!
The joystick problem could have several origins.
Could be a speed issue, for example.
Newer gameports in 16-Bit soundcards had to be speed-compensated (doing it automatically).
Some high-end game cards in the 80s had a trim pot for this purpose.
Issue of the problem:
The PC gameport works by charging/discharging capacitors.
They're used as a time base for a timer ic, the NE558
(Which itself contains the functionality of many 555 ICs - the 555 is/was the most famous timer ic in the world.)
Now, if the PC is too fast, there's not enough time to properly measure this act.
Both the hardware and software may have trouble then.
That's why calibration routines were often part of the game.
Or part of the joystick - the joystick could also be calibrated.
It was however, more intended to balance out both x and y axis.
Not to compensate for timing issues.
If you can, please tell a bit about your hard and software, so we can provide better tips.
Good luck! 🙂🤞
Edit: There were multiple utilities in the shareware and public domain scene.
Some emulated a mouse via joystick or a keyboard via joystick.

Hardware is 440bx - P3-750 with soundblaster ct2800 as gameport (also tried sb16 vibra-ct4180 and Aopen AW35 ). To rule out ISA timing I also tried the gameports of a few PCI soundcards, ALS4000 and YMF724. The Joystick isn't detected in any of them after running Tass. All other dos games (around 50 1980's games tested - like Outrun, Operation Wolf etc) all work with the joystick in each of the above soundcards. One strange thing though, I thought the soundcards game ports would all act slightly differently at the same cpu speed in their sensitivity range to calibration, but they don't.

I used joycheck.exe v1.05 from vogons to hardware calibrate the joystick. The Gravis has trim screws and I turned them to make sure it was centered. Joycheck shows a cursor in realtime that moves as you turn the trim screws so it was easy to get the joystick hardware calibrated to centre.

This is also the only game I have ever come across that needs a serial mouse.
I have searched around to look for a TSR than could emulate a serial mouse using a PS2 mouse in dos but can't find one.
I'm running the game in realmode dos using setmul to disable l1 and throttle at 4/8

EDIT - UPDATE
I got the joystick working in the game. It ended up being the Gravis Analog Pro itself. As it uses 4 buttons and a thrust control, two of the buttons and the thrust control use the 2nd Joystick port. This must affect some Dos games joystick detection routine, like Tass. (Though this is the first dos game after many I've tried that the Joystick didn't work in).

I just found out you can disable the thrust/extra buttons on the Gravis to stop it using the 2nd joystick port. You have to hold down the front button on the base of the joystick and keep the button held down before powering on your computer. After POST let go of the button and It just acts a a 2 button joystick using 1 port.
Tass detects the joystick now even without L1 cache disabled. As the game has no joystick calibration I had to slow down using L1 and throttle to around 12 mhz 286 levels to get the joystick properly moving.

Hi Riikcakirds!

Really glad to hear it works now! 😃

In the mean time I was searching for a solution and did read a scanned copy of the Tonetown news paper!
The articles were really funny and the English language, too. As if it was from another dimension or something.

As for the problem, I already had copyed the game over to my 10 MHz Schneider Tower AT for further testing.
Because it has an old 8-Bit Sound Blaster and a Genius mouse.
I thought that configuration might be useful for testing..

Hm. I may still do the testing in the future, to find out about TTiT's mouse support.
The game seems to be worth it checking out the different types it supports.

Speaking of the gameport.. Yes, that make sense - thanks for your feedback about the problem! 😎
Other users/players with a more modern setup will surely find this information very helpful.

Back in the days of which Tass Times in Tonetown was written, electronic PC joysticks like the Gravis gamepads weren't common.
Except for those special flight simulator joysticks, maybe. Like the early Thrustmaster series (FCS, WCS).

Here's a picture of IBM's original "Game Control Adapter". Very interesting!
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150_5160/ca … tm#game_adapter

It already had a single DE-15 connector containing two times the same pins for connecting x axis, y axis and two fire buttons (digital switches).

By contrast, my slightly newer Lindy game card from the late 80s has the gameport split into two separate ports, essentially.
Re: The Okey Dokey Sound Card: what even was this thing?

With such an antique card, your joystick issue may have never showed up.
Makes me wonder why such a design was so shortlived (the Sound Blasters had a single port again).

If the secondary joystick has a fire button that's locked permanently, the DOS game may gets confused.
Like a keyboard error with a stuck key, essentially. It really depends on the game, however.

But that was not your fault, really. There are many of such weird compatibility issues around.
I'm just really glad that you got the game working on your setup! 😄

Best wishes,
Jo22

Edit: There's something else that comes to mind. Maybe Tass was simply a bit too smart here.
It could be that it tried to detect on which gameport lines the physical joystick was connected to.
So it was maybe checking both joystick #1 and joystick #2 for analogue values on their x, y axis pins.
If your Gravis Analog Pro was using the axes of joystick #2, the joystick routine simply aborted.