Thanks, Nicht. I hope that you had some sleep:)

Now, on to the business at hand....

I don't understand the BOOT.INI info, ....is this used for the trick install, in other words, is this used if I want to install WIN 98-SE after WIN XP?

If so, perhaps, you did not understand my previous post....(or, I didn't understand your previous post. )

Make sure that you have a copy of your BOOT.INI file copied to a floppy (make sure it's not hidden or read-only). Otherwise, you will be crying.......

It's needed if you're going to try installing Windows 9x after XP. after is the key word here.

XP creates this for you during a normal install. If you try the trick-install, you have to manually edit the BOOT.INI file. It's a lot easier if you have your original BOOT.INI file to use as a template....

I DO NOT want to install WIN 98-SE after WIN XP, actually, my intention, ( actually, my hope!), is to COMPLETELY wipe my HD, and then start all over with a clean Hard Drive.

The following are the steps that I will follow...

1.) Wipe HD
2.) Install WIN 98-SE, and associated drivers
3.) Install PARTITION MAGIC 8.0
4.) Create two partitons.......

a.) C:--- partiton for WIN 98-SE
b.) ?:---partiton to be used for WIN XP-HOME

5.) Install WIN XP-HOME, and associated drivers

NOTE: I will follow your suggestion.....

I recommend creating a bunch of tiny little FAT partitions before installing XP. That way XP has high-letter like N: which will help prevent drive-letter-juggling when you add partitions. That way, D:/SIERRA/KQ5 STAYS D:/SIERRA/KQ5 whether I'm in 98 or XP. I delete the tiny partitions after XP has finished installing.

First things first.....
I have to download and burn all of the required drivers for both OS's, and back-up all of my files. (I still have issues here....) After I do this, I should be able to begin the above process. I'm not sure about the IBM HD (60 Gig., see profile). I have to use their (IBM's) Dynamic Disk Overlay, so I'm still looking into things...

I'll let you know what I find in my travels.... for now, Thanks for the info.

P.S. Thanks for the attachment.

P.P.S. What is your opinion about using FAT-32 for both Operating Systems? Wouldn't this allow me to swap files between the two OS's?

Muchos gracias,
dud

Originally posted by dud716 I hope that you had some sleep

Yes, overslept actually.

I don't understand the BOOT.INI info, ....is this used for the trick install, in other words, is this used if I want to install WIN 98-SE after WIN XP?

The trick isn't needed if you are installing Win98 first. Only if XP was installed first.

1.) Wipe HD 2.) Install WIN 98-SE, and associated drivers 3.) Install PARTITION MAGIC 8.0 4. […]
Show full quote

1.) Wipe HD
2.) Install WIN 98-SE, and associated drivers
3.) Install PARTITION MAGIC 8.0
4.) Create two partitons.......

I would create at least one other partition. One of the things I've been doing is keeping an E: drive with a collection of DOS titles on it. By keeping it separated from the OS partitions, my DOS games and their settings stay consistent, even after multiple start-from-scratch OS installs.

For example, if you made C: your Win98 partition, and D: for XP, you could make E: your games partition. Even if disaster struck and you had to install both OS's from scratch; once you got all your drivers and VDMSound reinstalled, they would be ready-to-go.

By the way, pick a letter for your CD-ROM drive and make sure you stick with it. Odds are, Win98 and XP will give it different drive letters and you don't want that. You want it to be the same letter for every program, every time it's used.
Also, make sure that your primary CD-ROM drive is the "lowest" drive letter of any "removable" devices on your PC (IOW, no USB drives or other CD-RW or DVD drives should come before it).

I have to use their (IBM's) Dynamic Disk Overlay, so I'm still looking into things...

That would make me uncomfortable. Is this because of a limitation in your BIOS or something? You'll definitely want some clear answers about partition resizing if you're using a tool like that.

P.P.S. What is your opinion about using FAT-32 for both Operating Systems? Wouldn't this allow me to swap files between the two OS's?

You can do this, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Advantages:
Easy exchange of files between the two OS's.

Never have to worry about placing a DOS program where 98 might not be able to "see" it.

Disadvantages:
Easy exchange of files between the two OS's. Too easy.
While WinXP knows and recognizes 98 (and will leave it alone), you can't say the same for 98. 98 will probably see it as a form of NT, but generally you will be more secure if XP is invisible to 98.

FAT32 doesn't have the security and compression options that NTFS has. XP was designed to run on NTFS. It will work with FAT32, but not as well...

Thanks, Sleepy.😀

I don't have any DOS games, and, actually, I probably won't. So the third partition for DOS won't be needed. If you can suggest another reason, (other than for DOS games), to create a third partition, I'm open to suggestions.

By the way, pick a letter for your CD-ROM drive and make sure you stick with it. Odds are, Win98 and XP will give it different drive letters and you don't want that. You want it to be the same letter for every program, every time it's used.
Also, make sure that your primary CD-ROM drive is the "lowest" drive letter of any "removable" devices on your PC (IOW, no USB drives or other CD-RW or DVD drives should come before it).

I was under the impression that when I install WIN 98-SE, the plug-and-play software would automatically "create" the drive letter for my primary CD-ROM (actually it's a DVD-ROM). Is there a way that I can rename the Drive, once WIN 98-SE is installed?

......BTW, PARTITION MAGIC 8.0 has a provision for using ONSTAR DRIVE OVERLAY (it's in their USER'S GUIDE). However, I'm pretty sure that my reason for using DDO in the first place, is because of my antiquated SYSTEM BIOS. (I'm looking into this as well!)
Can the SYSTEM BIOS typically be upgrade for free from the 'net?....or is this something that I have to purchase from a vendor?

.......Oh, another thing, I appreciate your suggestion to use NTFS for my WIN XP-HOME partiton installation. I've been doing some reading on the subject, and I agree with your concern about the security and stability issues.

Thanks, again, Nicht,...the check will be in the mail!!!

dud

P.S. FYI,

Drive Overlay Programs Drive overlays, such as Ontrack DDO, Microhouse EZ-Drive or Pro-Drive, Maxblast, WD DDO, and Seagate DDO, […]
Show full quote

Drive Overlay Programs
Drive overlays, such as Ontrack DDO, Microhouse EZ-Drive or Pro-Drive, Maxblast,
WD DDO, and Seagate DDO, provide your computer with access to larger disk drives.
PartitionMagic is compatible with these programs only if the drive overlay program is
loaded before PartitionMagic.
If you boot your computer from a diskette, the overlay will not load, and PartitionMagic
will not get the correct information from your drive. You can boot from a diskette and still
load the drive overlay by completing the following:
1 Start your computer as if you were going to boot from the hard disk.
2 When prompted, press <Space> or <Ctrl>.
3 The drive overlay information appears with an option of booting from a diskette.
Select this option and insert the boot diskette when prompted.

Originally posted by dud716 I don't have any DOS games,

Then you are missing out...some of the best game titles ever created are DOS-only.

...and, actually, I probably won't.

Then you're mad. Stark, RAVING MAD.

So the third partition for DOS won't be needed.

Do it anyway. There are some Windows games that can work the way DOS games do (I've kept the same install of Quake3Arena over the last 4 installs). Also, by keeping your OS an a smaller, separate partition; you allow the OS to run at greater speed and reduce fragmentation.

If you can suggest another reason, (other than for DOS games), to create a third partition, I'm open to suggestions.

DO IT! OBEY!! *shakes fist violently at monitor*

I was under the impression that when I install WIN 98-SE, the plug-and-play software would automatically "create" the drive letter for my primary CD-ROM (actually it's a DVD-ROM). Is there a way that I can rename the Drive, once WIN 98-SE is installed?

Yes, unlike the hard-drive partitions, Win98 will assign the first available drive letter to the CD/DVD drive, but still allow you to change it. If you go to your System icon in the Control Panel and pull up it's "Properties", you'll find that you have the option of assigning any available letter to that drive.

......BTW, PARTITION MAGIC 8.0 has a provision for using ONSTAR DRIVE OVERLAY (it's in their USER'S GUIDE). However, I'm pretty sure that my reason for using DDO in the first place, is because of my antiquated SYSTEM BIOS.

So long as you're comfortable with it. Remember, if it bursts into flames, it's not my fault.

Can the SYSTEM BIOS typically be upgrade for free from the 'net?

That depends on your motherboard's manufacturer. Check their site for downloadable BIOS updates.

BTW, If you do decide to "flash" the BIOS, I hope you have the PC hooked up to a UPS.

Thanks, again, Nicht,...the check will be in the mail!!!

Check? Hrrmm...check. I have heard legends of this thing. I have heard that it can make bill-collectors go away....Of course, it is only legend.

Nicht,

DO IT! OBEY!! *shakes fist violently at monitor*

Roger, I will obey. What size do you recommend for my 3 partitions? I have one HD...IBM Deskstar 60GXP,7200rpm...has NEVER CRASHED...(general response to all IBM naysayers!!!).

.....Remember, if it bursts into flames, it's not my fault.

I hope to eliminate the DDO by upgrading the SYS BIOS. I'm on the hunt as we speak...

BTW, If you do decide to "flash" the BIOS, I hope you have the PC hooked up to a UPS.

....Hum...Don't tell me...this will take, like, forever.... That sucks major weinees, I'm working from a dial-up over here!!!

......I'll get back to you.

thanks, dud

P.S. The legend is true!!!

Originally posted by dud716 What size do you recommend for my 3 partitions?

Generally. 4 Gig for the Win98 partition (C:), 4 to 8 Gig for XP, all remaining space to the DATA partition.

I have one HD...IBM Deskstar 60GXP,7200rpm...has NEVER CRASHED...

*jinx*

....Hum...Don't tell me...this will take, like, forever....

The problem is not that it takes a long time (usually less than 2 minutes), the problem is that it cannot be interrupted.

Odds are against it, but if you were to have a power outage during the BIOS update, you will be crying.

Nicht....I'm not sure that I understand....

Generally. 4 Gig for the Win98 partition (C), 4 to 8 Gig for XP, all remaining space to the DATA partition.

Are these partiton sizes (4 Gig for WIN 98, 4 to 8 Gig for WIN XP) for the OPERATING SYSTEMS ONLY?

In other words, will the DATA parition store all of my games, software, and such, regardless of which OS was used to install the data?

BTW, I surfed for a BIOS upgrade, and unfortunately, my MOBO is so old, that neither BIOSTAR nor AWARD no longer offer support. (What dicks!) They only offer a BIOS flash that corrects a conflict with certain MICROTEK scanners.
I had to order a BIOS upgrade from a vendor (TOUCHSTONE SOFTWARE CORP., via e-support.com) Should be here next week. This upgrade (v 6.0) will enable me to eliminate the DDO.

When I eventually have the time to back up all of my stuff, I should be ready to go.

Thanks for all of your help, meanwhile,if you think of anything, please drop me a line.

dud

You should always check your mainboard manufacturer's website, not the BIOS manufacturer's website.

Colin,

huh?

BIOSTAR has only an UPDATE for my mobo. It pertains to MICROTEK scanner issues....I spoke to TS and I was told that they no longer provide support for this board. Go figure? AWARD was no help either.

BTW,I am getting an UPGRADE not an UPDATE.

dud

P.S. Colin, please close the Milliways thread. re: VERBATIM CD-RW
thanks;)

Originally posted by dud716 Are these partiton sizes (4 Gig for WIN 98, 4 to 8 Gig for WIN XP) for the OPERATING SYSTEMS ONLY?

Well, mostly. Most programs will work fine on non-system partitions. About the only exceptions are programs like "Partition Magic" which needs to be on your system partition (also, this allows "Partition Magic" to resize other partitions while you are still in Windows...needs a reboot only at the end). The idea in general is to isolate the OS from the rest of your system as much as possible (without causing problems).

For example, I always change Internet Explorer's temporary directory to a directory on my D: drive. The files in this directory are constantly changing, which causes fragmentation. By moving it away from my OS partition, I reduce fragmentation of my OS.

In other words, will the DATA partition store all of my games, software, and such, regardless of which OS was used to install the data?

That depends on what you think you'll need. If you make your DATA partition NTFS (and you probably should) then the Win98 partition needs to be large enough to accommodate the Win98 OS and whatever games that need Win98 to work.

Win98 will need about 2Gigs for the basic OS and utilities, which would leave about 2Gigs of "old" games. If you need more space, you would either need to delete some games or resize the partition to make more room.

For XP, on second thought, I'd say 8Gigs at least. There's just too many resources that XP needs to give it less than 8Gigs.

BTW, I surfed for a BIOS upgrade, and unfortunately, my MOBO is so old, that neither BIOSTAR nor AWARD no longer offer support. (What dicks!)

Don't expect any motherboard manufacturer to support their board beyond a couple of years. In the computer industry, that's like a millenium.

They only offer a BIOS flash that corrects a conflict with certain MICROTEK scanners.

There was also something about AU8820 sound cards...In any case, there are probably other, minor changes not mentioned in the description.
http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/ … m6tza/bios.php3

Every time I've upgraded a BIOS, I've always found there to be changes in the PC's "behavior" after a BIOS change. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. But it's usually minor...

I had to order a BIOS upgrade from a vendor (TOUCHSTONE SOFTWARE CORP., via e-support.com) Should be here next week. This upgrade (v 6.0) will enable me to eliminate the DDO.

*cringe*
Well I hope that works out for and that it was cheap. In all honesty, I wouldn't invest any more money in your present motherboard. Presently, I could go an replace my motherboard and processor for , so paying cash to "upgrade" it doesn't sound good to me.

When I eventually have the time to back up all of my stuff, I should be ready to go.

One other advantage of multiple partitions with a separate data area. If my OS is trashed, I can quickly format and re-install the OS partition without having to back any of my data files. If there are any data files on my system partition, I just quickly copy them over to my data partition.

Nicht, .....Are you now suggesting that I create, (at the least), four partitons?

1.) WIN 98-SE (4 Gigs.)
2.) WIN XP-HOME (8 Gigs.)
3.) DOS (??? Gigs.)
4.) DATA (remaining disk space)

......If so, what size should I make the DOS partition?

As for the BIOS upgrade, it cost me $60.00, but it will suffice for now. When I have the cash, I intend to build my own system with all new parts.
A new motherboard and CPU for an 8 year old box, (in my opinion), wouldn't be prudent, considering everything else is 8 years old. Next thing you know, the power supply, sound card, graphics card, etc., will crap out and need replacing; I'll wind up spending more money upgrading than it's worth . I'd rather just put the money in my piggy bank and use it at a later date to build a new system.
Take it from me, my 1986 Jeep, (205k miles), has been nickle and diming me for the past several years. I've put so much money into the damned thing, that I probably could have bought a new one by now!!

thanks, dud

nono.
1) Win98SE (FAT32) : 4-8G
2) WinXP (NTFS) : 8G
3) Data (NTFS) : remaining space

He says make sure you have enough room on your FAT32 partition for your games.

uh......huh?

Colin, I agree with you, (and Nicht), on the suggested sizes , and file systems, for the WIN 98-SE and WIN XP-HOME partitions.

I understand that the DATA partiton will store most of the software and games, ( except, of course, those titles that will only work on WIN 98-SE,... these titles must go on the WIN 98-SE partiton).

However,... I was under the impression that I need a seperate partition for the DOS games. If not, where do they go? Can you please explain.

thanks,
dud

😕

The same partition as Win9x, silly.

Originally posted by Snover The same partition as Win9x, silly.

Correct. Win9x has DOS inside of it, so DOS games would need to go where Win98 can "see" them.

duh...say what you mean! Your dealing with an ameteur over here! Gee Whiz!!
According to Nicht...

I would create at least one other partition. One of the things I've been doing is keeping an E: drive with a collection of DOS titles on it. By keeping it separated from the OS partitions, my DOS games and their settings stay consistent, even after multiple start-from-scratch OS installs.

Nicht's response (above) is what lead me to believe that I should create a third partiton for DOS. ....it says, create a third partition (E: drive) with a collection of DOS titles on it. Sounds a bit confusing....

Let me get this straight....
1.) Wipe Hard Drive
2.) Install WIN 98-SE and drivers
3.) Install Partiton Magic (on the WIN98-SE partition)
4.) Create three partitions,(includingWIN98-SE)

5.) Designate...

C:--- for WIN 98-SE*** (FAT32)
D:---for WIN XP-HOME***(NTFS)
E:---for DATA***(NTFS)

6.) Install WIN XP-HOME and drivers

The result should be....

The three partitions will be:
C.) WIN 98-SE....(FAT 32, 8 Gigs.)
D.) WIN XP-HOME....(NTFS, 8 Gigs.)
E.) DATA.....(NTFS, remaining space)

Is this correct? If so, then the DOS titles will be 'stored' on the WIN 98-SE partiton, not the DATA partiton, as was previously posted by Nicht.

thanks,
dud

Originally posted by dud716 duh...say what you mean! Your dealing with an ameteur over here! Gee Whiz!!

Nicht's response (above) is what lead me to believe that I should create a third partiton for DOS. ....it says, create a third partition (E: drive) with a collection of DOS titles on it. Sounds a bit confusing....

Relax Dud, If you remember you said

I don't have any DOS games, and, actually, I probably won't.

, so I figured DOS titles were a low priority.

I was only giving you an example of how my system is configured and why I did it that way. If you were to duplicate my setup , it would actually involve five partitions

C:--- for WIN 98-SE*** (FAT32, 4Gig)
D:---for my TEMP drive ***(FAT32, about 2Gig) (direct most of my temporary storage to here, such Internet Explorer's temp files)
E:---for Applications/Games ***(FAT32, about 18Gig)
F:---for Applications/Games ***(FAT32, about 18Gig)
G:---for Bulk Storage ***(NTFS, about 80Gig)
N:---for Win XP (NTFS, about 8Gig)

You don't have that much space, so obviously you need to be a little more conservative about partitioning your drive.

BTW, I noticed that you keep referring to your XP drive as D:\. Be aware that it will appear that way within XP, but when you start up Win98, XP's partition will become invisible; so Win98 will turn your E:\ drive into your D:\ drive.

This is why I created a bunch of tiny FAT partitions, so I could use a much higher drive letter for XP. By placing XP on drive N:, my D:, E:, and F: drives use the same letters in 98 as they do in XP. Once XP was installed, I deleted the tiny partitions and gave the space back to Win98 and XP partitions. Just a tip.

Is this correct? If so, then the DOS titles will be 'stored' on the WIN 98-SE partiton, not the DATA partiton, as was previously posted by Nicht.

Actually, that will depend on how many DOS/Windows titles will work in XP and NTFS. Thinking about it, since you try to stick with your hardware for a good, long time; it's probably a good idea to have two data partitions. One could be FAT32, the other as NTFS...consider this configuration:

C:--- for WIN 98-SE****************** (FAT32, 4Gig)
D:---for non-XP Applications/Games *****(FAT32, about 2Gig)
E:---for XP-compatible Applications/Games (NTFS, about 46Gig)
N:---for Win XP *********************(NTFS, about 8Gig)

Sound reasonable? BTW, this all sounds very complex, but it's really not. Once you have the basics set up, it makes re-installing your OS or installing a new OS much easier. You can completely wipe your OS partitions without jumping through hoops to back up all of your files in the future.

Thanks, Nicht, for 'splaining what you mean:) One additional question, if you don't mind....

The E: Drive (below) for XP Compatible games....

C:--- for WIN 98-SE****************** (FAT32, 4Gig) D:---for non-XP Applications/Games *****(FAT32, about 2Gig) E:---for XP-comp […]
Show full quote

C:--- for WIN 98-SE****************** (FAT32, 4Gig)
D:---for non-XP Applications/Games *****(FAT32, about 2Gig)
E:---for XP-compatible Applications/Games (FAT32, about 46Gig)
N:---for Win XP *********************(NTFS, about 8Gig)

Am I correct to assume that you are using FAT32 on the E drive so that both 98 and XP can access these files as needed?

dud's edit IMPORTANT!!!...see Nicht's following post.

thanks,
dud

Originally posted by dud716 One additional question, if you don't mind....

Truly, I am outraged.
Not really, I just like saying that.

Am I correct to assume that you are using FAT32 on the E drive so that both 98 and XP can access these files as needed?

Whoops! That should have been NTFS. See what happens when you posts for hours at a time?

The smaller partition should be FAT32 and should be reserved for titles that are incompatible with NTFS and/or XP.
*hurries back to purge goof*

Anyway, I also consider "cluster sizes" when choosing my partition sizes. 2Gigs for a FAT32 partition is good size as it allows for minimal "wasted" space on the partition. If you were to format a 32Gig partition as FAT32 (for example), it would waste about 600 Megabytes of space if you used an 8K cluster (the smallest size available). It would waste 1.27 Gigs of space if you used a 16K cluster size.

So a 46Gig partition would waste even more space. BTW, one good thing about "Partition Magic" is that it makes partition sizing "flexible". If you find that 2Gigs just isn't enough for your FAT32 partition, you can enlarge it by shrinking your NTFS partition slightly to make space (so long as the NTFS partition isn't full).

What the &^%/????

I already started, and everything is all f***ed up!!!

Just kidding:)

I know things can get confusing at times, especially when one hasn't slept for a while 😁 ROFL

Okay, things are beginning to make sense to me now!!! I don't know how!!! ...but I'm beginning to understand.

When you say....

The smaller partition should be FAT32 and should be reserved for titles that are incompatible with NTFS and/or XP.

....are you refering to......

D:---for non-XP Applications/Games *****(FAT32, about 2Gig)

One more thing....

I also consider "cluster sizes" when choosing my partition sizes. 2Gigs for a FAT32 partition is good size as it allows for minimal "wasted" space on the partition. If you were to format a 32Gig partition as FAT32 (for example), it would waste about 600 Megabytes of space if you used an 8K cluster (the smallest size available). It would waste 1.27 Gigs of space if you used a 16K cluster size

Can I adjust the cluster size, or is this something that results automatically due to the partition size?

thanks, dud
P.S. I know this is going to cost me big bucks, that is, if it works?!
You'll have to send me your address, so that I can send you some paper cheddar weasels. Remeber them??:D 😁