a lot of xp games i found by microodt games works theres also games brought to us by steam like rise of nations

Narzoul wrote on 2022-06-10, 17:35:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-10, 05:05:

Get a copy of XP's ddraw.dll and copy it into the game folder (NOT the Windows or System folder!).

This is highly unlikely to work. XP's ddraw is for sure not compatible with WDDM GPU drivers (which were introduced with Vista), and you can't even install the older XPDM drivers since Windows 8.

It worked for me on Windows 7 x64 with both Virtual PC 2007 x64 and DOSBox 32-Bit.
Both were creating a DDraw Surface, if memory serves.

Edit: All that's needed is a functioning DDraw, no Direct3D.
Direct Draw never required hardware acceleration, it always worked with software rendering, too.

That also might be true for Direct 3D v6 titles and before, *maybe*.
Back in the Windows 98 days, DirectX's reference rasterizer was still feature complete and visually superior to early 3D cards, even:
For a (short) while MMX was seen as a competition to dedicated 3D accelerators.

Regarding FettKeks problem, what Narzoul suggested for not installing in Program Files might be true. I suggest a path such as D:\Games to make sure we aren't bottlenecked by a file system issue

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-06-10, 18:25:

Regarding FettKeks problem, what Narzoul suggested for not installing in Program Files might be true. I suggest a path such as D:\Games to make sure we aren't bottlenecked by a file system issue

Yes, that's true, I think. Windows is restrictive when it comes to "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)".
It requires special permissions for both of them..

I still wonder why Microsoft added spaces, also, by the way.
That causes nothing but trouble with paths.
You always have to use exclamation marks to work with it. Edit: quotation marks.
A simple "Programs" and "Programs_86" would have been much wiser.
In my localized version of Windows XP, the path was "Programme" and never caused issues.
Sure, it wasn't proper American English. But the British English had a "Programme" in the dictionary, too.
Even though it was associated with the TV/Radio.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-10, 18:36:

Yes, that's true, I think. Windows is restrictive when it comes to "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)". It requires specia […]
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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-06-10, 18:25:

Regarding FettKeks problem, what Narzoul suggested for not installing in Program Files might be true. I suggest a path such as D:\Games to make sure we aren't bottlenecked by a file system issue

Yes, that's true, I think. Windows is restrictive when it comes to "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)".
It requires special permissions for both of them..

I still wonder why Microsoft added spaces, also, by the way.
That causes nothing but trouble with paths.
You always have to use exclamation marks to work with it. Edit: quotation marks.
A simple "Programs" and "Programs_86" would have been much wiser.
In my localized version of Windows XP, the path was "Programme" and never caused issues.
Sure, it wasn't proper American English. But the British English had a "Programme" in the dictionary, too.
Even though it was associated with the TV/Radio.

It becomes a even bigger problem when the file is not a Windows executable but a DOS executable/ a file to be emulated. As I wrote in a other thread, DOS programs on Windows 11 start and crash when launched from these folders but run on another pc with same os

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-10, 18:21:

It worked for me on Windows 7 x64 with both Virtual PC 2007 x64 and DOSBox 32-Bit. Both were creating a DDraw Surface, if memory […]
Show full quote

It worked for me on Windows 7 x64 with both Virtual PC 2007 x64 and DOSBox 32-Bit.
Both were creating a DDraw Surface, if memory serves.

Edit: All that's needed is a functioning DDraw, no Direct3D.
Direct Draw never required hardware acceleration, it always worked with software rendering, too.

That also might be true for Direct 3D v6 titles and before, *maybe*.
Back in the Windows 98 days, DirectX's reference rasterizer was still feature complete and visually superior to early 3D cards, even:
For a (short) while MMX was seen as a competition to dedicated 3D accelerators.

Ok, true, in theory it could possibly work in software only mode, without any hardware acceleration. I tried this for fun, but unfortunately on Windows 11, the XP ddraw.dll doesn't load at all. Based on API Monitor it fails to create/open a bunch of mutexes in DllMain (with access denied errors), then just gives up and returns with FALSE, which terminates the DLL loading.

For the purpose of running ddraw games without hardware acceleration, I'd rather recommend the ForceDirectDrawEmulation ACT shim anyway. That does actually work with Sven2, and it prevents it from loading any sort of GPU drivers, so it can be good for ruling out GPU driver issues at least. But based on the logs so far I don't think it's a ddraw problem, it's more likely to be a dinput or maybe dsound problem at this point.

Narzoul wrote on 2022-06-10, 19:21:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-10, 18:21:

It worked for me on Windows 7 x64 with both Virtual PC 2007 x64 and DOSBox 32-Bit. Both were creating a DDraw Surface, if memory […]
Show full quote

It worked for me on Windows 7 x64 with both Virtual PC 2007 x64 and DOSBox 32-Bit.
Both were creating a DDraw Surface, if memory serves.

Edit: All that's needed is a functioning DDraw, no Direct3D.
Direct Draw never required hardware acceleration, it always worked with software rendering, too.

That also might be true for Direct 3D v6 titles and before, *maybe*.
Back in the Windows 98 days, DirectX's reference rasterizer was still feature complete and visually superior to early 3D cards, even:
For a (short) while MMX was seen as a competition to dedicated 3D accelerators.

Ok, true, in theory it could possibly work in software only mode, without any hardware acceleration. I tried this for fun, but unfortunately on Windows 11, the XP ddraw.dll doesn't load at all. Based on API Monitor it fails to create/open a bunch of mutexes in DllMain (with access denied errors), then just gives up and returns with FALSE, which terminates the DLL loading.

For the purpose of running ddraw games without hardware acceleration, I'd rather recommend the ForceDirectDrawEmulation ACT shim anyway. That does actually work with Sven2, and it prevents it from loading any sort of GPU drivers, so it can be good for ruling out GPU driver issues at least. But based on the logs so far I don't think it's a ddraw problem, it's more likely to be a dinput or maybe dsound problem at this point.

That makes sense, I totally forgot about our old friend, Direct Sound.
A lot has changed over the years.. Direct Sound 3D and DirectMusic are "gone" in their old form..
Well, back then I merely had a PAS16 or SB16 CT1740 installed. Not sure if that's helpful.
I merely played Sven 1, also..

Here's a translation from a help page in HTML format.

FAQ: […]
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FAQ:

If you have a problem that isn't listed here, check the internet for the » updated version of the FAQs.

I can't install the game. What am I doing wrong?
You may not have the necessary "rights" to install new programs on this computer. This problem mainly occurs with Windows 2000, XP and NT computers that are integrated into a company network. In this case you should contact the responsible system administrator.

The program does not start. What can I do?
Please first check that the computer meets the following minimum system requirements:
IBM compatible PC: Pentium II 450 MHz or compatible, 128 MB RAM.
Operating systems: Windows 98/ME/2000/XP, DirectX 3 or higher. SVGA
graphics card with 8 MB graphics memory, mouse, sound card, loudspeaker, approx. 80 MB free hard disk space, CD-ROM drive

Old drivers are usually the cause. In most cases, updating the » graphics or sound card driver or installing the latest » DirectX version helps .

Source: http://www.scheer-halle.de/sp/sv2_anl.html

Edit: I've just checked the SDK of DirectX 3.
One of the text files mentioned these new features:

New for this Release
--------------------

1) DirectPlay 3, including an Internet Service Provider and redesigned
easy-to-use interfaces.

2) DirectSound3D for positional audio.

3) DirectInput for easy control of mouse and keyboard.

4) Direct3D MMX acceleration.

5) New display, 3D, and sound drivers.

So DirectInput was supported already and your guess wasn't wrong.
Direct Play could be a stumbling stone, too, but it was rarely used and the game is single-player.